Okay people... I've said this before, and I will say this again... We need to stop focusing on the symptom and start looking at what the core issue of the problem is. When a ferret is urinating where it shouldn't be, and it wasn't doing it before a new ferret came into the home, ask yourself why the arrival of the new ferret would cause the established ferret to do what you don't want him to do? Obviously rule out any medical conditions before proceeding. It is important to separate toilet habits from territorial behaviour because the two need to be handled differently. Territorial marking is common in ferrets who like to let newcomers know just where their territory begins and where it ends. Territorial marking is also a challengers way of letting the established ferret know who is ready for a fight and chance to be Alpha ferret. Poop is most commonly associated with territorial marking, but urination does the same thing. As the poster stated yesterday, there is no amount of cleaning that will make the established ferret re-learn his "good" toilet training habits. Why? Because the urine and/or poop is the calling card letting the other ferret know who is in town. The poster also mentioned that they had to separate the two ferrets because after an hour or so, the play turned into fighting. One of the biggest mistakes ferret owners make is that they separate ferrets ar too early when they really shouldn't. It is natural for ferrets to fight. It is natural for them to define a pecking order. By separating the two ferrets, you are essentially prolonging what needs to be worked out. Integration is a tough concept for a lot of people because it means putting their ferret into a stressful situation and no one wants to see their ferrets hurt, screaming, running, or generally freaked out. Poop flies, screaming happens and it looks awfully rough when ferrets duke it out. I have a home filled with loners, with ferrets who came from single ferret homes, with ferrets who came with a bonded buddy who died of cancer down the road leaving them alone, with old ferrets that people felt could not defend themselves... I don't believe in the concept of surrendered single ferrets being adopted out to a "no-other-ferret home". I don't believe in the concept of ferrets never getting along with other ferrets. Why? Because I see it time and time again that this way of thinking is just plain wrong. And I know I am not the only one. What does this have to do with the urine issue? Well, it has a great deal to do with it because people need to let ferrets work their problems out on their own. Too often we intervene too quickly because it is us who becomes fearful of ferrets hurting one another. One of our vets here states quite clearly, that in all of her years of practice, she has never, ever, seen a ferret killed or even seriously injured by another ferret. Now I know there will be those of you out there who will be ready with a story or two to refute this... remember... we are not taking about whole ferrets here. We are talking about neutered/spayed healthy animals. I've had old ferrets come into my home and that were better in defending themselves than the youngsters. It seems that age has taught them wisdom and the art of self defense. Ferrets are just like other animals... they need to find their placement in a group. Every new ferret that comes into my home, regardless of age, is automatically bottom of the ladder. It is through their fights and stand offs that they work their way up. And the pecking order that they fight to establish changes all the time. It is not a straight line... it is more like the branches of a tree, where there is an Alpha ferret, but there could be multiple Beta ferrets and so on. Depending on how a ferret feels that day is also dependent on how high up he or she is, and how often they get their position challenged. Does allowing this fighting make them more aggressive towards people? Hardly! They are two totally independent issues. We have one Alpha male who has been at the top of the pile since he got here. We have yet to bring home or adopt a ferret that is bullish enough to challenge him. So, in the meantime, he gets to be boss for a very long time. But his day will come when he isn't boss anymore. I've seen ferrets who have never been raised with other ferrets fit into a group situation quite well. To me, there are no such things as loner ferrets. All ferrets can be integrated... we just have to give them time. The problem is that most people want quick fix solutions and this just isn't realistic. Integration can take a few hours, a single fight or day to work out. Other times it can be a long road, lasting a year or more. We cannot set timelines. We need to let ferrets fight it out, and let them work out the pecking order. The fighting looks worst than it is, and there will be scabbed necks. There will be some blood in some cases. But by providing safety boxes (boxes that have only one hole in them) and having them all over the house, the ferrets will quickly learn that they have places that they can hide in that will protect them and give them a chance to hold off an aggressor. Learn to be patient. Learn to accept the squeals and screams. Learn to give them the time they need to work things through, and I guarantee, things like urine marking will run its course. And I do need to mention one other thing... a ferret that hits the litter box 100% of the time now, is not guaranteed to stay like that forever. Eventually he/she will get old and incontinence may kick in. Or they may simply get sick. Enjoy it now while you can, but try to be forgiving when the day comes when that perfect record ends. That's when they need your love and support the most. betty and her blur o'fur for the love of ferrets [Posted in FML issue 3775]