Hey all- I was interested to read the thread about Midwest and Martin's cages because I've had experience with both. I have had a Midwest cage for the last few years that I "adopted" with 2 of my ferrets. The guy had added a 2nd floor much as described in one of the posts I just read- with metal dowel rods stuck through the corners supporting a particle board floor (cut into 3 sections to get it through the door) and covered with a section of vinyl flooring. Instead of a ramp going from the bottom to 2nd level (never had one and couldn't find one) I used a piece of clear dryer tubing strengthened by covering the bottom with duct tape, taped securely to the floor and to the opening of the 2nd floor, and supported in the middle by "hanging" the middle section from the dowel rods supporting the 2nd floor with a couple of lengths of twine. Kind of had to see it to understand, probably. I agree that the 2 plastic shelves are virtually useless, and the plastic pan that the whole cage sits in is also more trouble than it's worth (unless you're a masochist who LIKES lifting the entire cage out of the pan and digging out dried food and poop from the sides). Very early on I ditched the whole pan (it's been sitting in a closet for 5 years) and just sat the cage down on another big scrap of vinyl flooring and lined the bottom floor (where the litter pans were) with newspaper. To clean I just removed the pans and cleared the papers, and occasionally tipped the cage a little to wipe under the part that sat on the floor. ANYWAY, this set-up worked fine for me until now because the ferrets (currently 5, though has been more in the past) weren't in it all the time- they had their own room and the cage sat open most of the time. Now I have to convert their room into a baby room and they're unfortunately being forced to move full-time into a cage, and the Midwest was just too small, especially since they never used the upper shelves. Plus it was pretty ugly! So (some of you may remember this) I ordered 2 huge Martin's cages and had them customize them so they could sit next to each other and have doorways connecting them- basically one HUMONGOUS cage. I just moved them into the set-up a few days ago but so far I LOVE IT!!!! Each cage is 3 full floors, and I got the "New Englander" (I think it's called), so the top level is actually a separate barn-shaped cage that you can slide a (provided) cage pan into and section it off from the rest of the cage if you need to, and can also remove the whole top level (they provide an attachable trap door to seal off the opening in the "ceiling" of the 2nd level) to use as a travel cage. So I basically have 4 separate cages combined into one big cage, with PLENTY of floor space. The pull-out plastic pans on the bottom levels are great, the doors are huge and easy to open (though not for the ferrets) and are located on each level, and the Martins even sent extra connecters for connecting the cages together and extra doors so if I ever need to I can separate the 2 cages. Not only were they great to talk to and very helpful, but they shipped the cages out the day after I ordered them (even with the cusomizations) and they arrived later that week, and the cage itself is beautiful and very sturdy. It's true that they don't collapse down once you get them together (you put the pieces together with little c-rings, which are provided) but that doesn't matter to us because we're not going to be moving the cage much. In a nutshell, overall I would recommend the Martins cage big-time over the Midwest, unless you're planning on relocating frequently and need a cage that breaks down. We ARE going to move eventually, but to another house in the same town, and I'll just load my Martin's cages into the back of a truck- not a big deal. Besides, even with the Midwest cage, once you add the huge plastic bottom part, the added-on flooring parts, shelves, litter pans, etc that you have to take OUT in order to fold down the cage, you don't end up saving much space at all and in fact just add the hassle of tearing down and rebuilding the whole cage. So that's my two cents worth. Hope it helps! Oh- and now that I've just explained what a big pain my Midwest cage is, I'm not using mine anymore and haven't really figured out what to do with it yet. I may give it to a vet friend if she wants it, but if anyone in Indiana (I'm in Bloomington) is interested in taking it off my hands let me know! I'll give it away for free, but you have to come get it. It'd be a pain in the butt to ship (not to mention expensive) and I'd really have to show you how to set it up. Sorry this went so long! Jamie Furr and the 5 Furr-ets (who like their new cage but aren't thrilled to not have the run of the place anymore), Gus, Hopper, Einstein, Butterbean, and Baby [Posted in FML issue 3679]