...only so because of their handling or housing... I have to say I'm not so sure about this being the cause of the tendency of whole males to be more nippy and aggressive in the ferrets I see. I am sure, though, that I'm probably seeing this from a different perspective than you. I'm comparing whole males to males that are generally neutered at very young ages. As a shelter, we generally don't see many intact ferrets at all, and there's never a whole female here to housed next to. Females get spayed within days of arrival, while still in quarrantine, health permitting. Because we live close to an ADV reported area, all new arrivals are quarrantined in a separate facility. Whole males sometimes wait a little longer for neutering but even then, they are not housed close to even females awaiting adrenal surgery. We HAVE observed a marked increase in aggressive behavior of whole males in close proximity to females exhibiting adrenal symptoms. So I guess could be a question here of "how far away is far enough?" to prevent whole males from reacting to females with adrenal symptoms. But, I have not observed any marked increase in nipping or aggression when the whole male is moved from quarrantine facilities to the general population area other than those that were inadvertantly placed next to an adrenal female (and subsequently moved). I can't say that the handling they get here helps the least bit, we do not discipline biters. BUT, within weeks of being neutered, the nipping decreases and stops. I'd say this is anecdotal to a great extent, but even when neutering is several months away in the shelter's bugetable medical expenses, the behavior still does not show a marked improvement until the weeks after neutering. The "earmark" maximum time period for "adjusting to a new environment" for a ferret is three months. Yogi repeatedly nailed me for 4 months... three weeks after neutering, he no longer nipped at all. Yogi is just one average example, unremarkable in terms of frequency or intensity of nips of a whole male. As policy, we do not consider whole males that come in as biters to be "behavior disorder" ferrets. We have them neutered and work with them gently through the weeks following as the hormones flush out of their system. When they no longer nip hard enough to be a problem with children, we consider them adoptable. (We don't adopt out ferrets with former behavior disorders, we only foster them to experienced homes.) To keep it in perspective, we HAVE gotten in whole males that were the sweetest things ever, that would never even think about nipping. But the ratio is about 5 biters to 1 non-biter in whole males, compared to early neutered ferrets with a ratio of 1 biter to 30 non-biters. So, that's where my "whole males tend to be nippy and aggressive" statement comes from. It's not an official statistic, or documented research, just first hand experience. (Nippy kits, less than a year old, don't fall under the "behavior disorder" category, BTW.) Some breeders advertise that their ferrets are bred for good temperament, so maybe these (from breeders with real knowledge in genetics) are the 1 out of 5 whole males that don't generally nip (without provocation, handling, nearby jills, etc.). I don't know. I'm not qualified to hazard a guess there. As a breeder, you probably have a much better insight on that than I do. All I know is what I deal with as far as surrendered and rescued ferrets. It's important to understand that many, in fact most, of the ferrets that come here actually came from decent homes and were not mishandled. It's also very important to differentiate between biting and nipping. We also do behavior disorder rehabilitation, even for non-shelter ferrets. We've turned a lot of "incurable" biters into ferrets that don't even think about biting. These are ferrets that attacked, drew blood, and repeated the attacks. Ferrets who had to have jaws pried opened (pressing at the sides of the mouth behind the canines)to release the finger, hand, foot, or in one case to never be repeated, chin. Ferrets that repeat this behavior again and again, day after day with no readily discernable provocation. These are biters. Whole males and ferrets under a year old are usually just nippers, a ferret that only needs proper training (or neutering, then proper training), not rehabilitation. == Debi Christy Ferrets First Foster Home http://www.geocities.com/ferretsfirst/ [Posted in FML issue 3596]