[Moderator's note: This is a pretty long response (it was posted in 3 parts which are combined here) about Marshall Farms. If you've been a subscriber for a while you know how "charged" this topic can be, plus the Killians and Danielle don't see eye-to-eye on this and invariably respond to each other on the list. And sometimes these responses have been less than friendly. Personally, I think that while this is not an extrodinarily friendly post, the following is civil and can be posted. I am expecting any responses to be similarly civil as well. When this is no longer the case, the topic will immediately be retired for a few months and the "less than civil" posts will be returned unposted. Rememeber, we're here to talk about the ferrets, not to fight among ourselves. 'nuf said. BIG] My post is being dissected and taken out of context...sigh. I wrote: Marshall Farms has been asked repeatedly (by me and others), to make a post on the FML regarding concerns... Diane Killian wrote: As was stated to us on several occasions, Marshalls knows that if they posted, they wouldn't be treated fairly, therefore, they have chosen not to become embroiled in a bitter dispute or flame war with their detractors. My response: Hmmm...since Marshall Farms has NOT tried this, how do they know this will happen and not the reverse? Boy, running a business always has risks involved just like the way they ship their ferrets to pet stores. I wouldn't think posting a response to the accusations would be a big deal, but in my opinion, just like the other representatives of their company, they probably would not be able to provide logical responses to the questions. I wrote: then you can call and hear their excuses and lack of knowledge on ferrets first hand (oops, had to put my personal experiences in). Diane Killian wrote: This is a perfect example. You have implied that you believe that you, as a more or less, recent ferret owner know more than the Marshalls,a multigenerational family with decades of experience, back to the beginnings of the keeping of ferrets as pets. I write: Excuse me, are you suggesting that someone who has been owned by ferrets for twelve years, is a RECENT ferret owner? I hope that all the other FML readers are not offended by that statement since many have been owned by ferrets for less than twelve years. Also, longevity does not necessarily have anything to do with experience, there are MANY out there who have been owned by ferrets for 20 years or more and still don't get it. I wrote: Keep in mind, that Marshall Farms will not allow outside visitors to the breeding area and states that it is because of the possibility of germs. Diane Killian wrote: From a purely practical standpoint, this is an extremely important reason for not allowing visitors. Numerous private breeders won't allow visitors to see their breeding facilities. Germs can lead to infectious diseases being spread, as well as possibly fatalities. I write: Did you not read the part of the post I made on this? Apparently not. I agree on the germ thing but Hazmat suits do not allow germs to affect the person wearing it AND vice-versa. What is your reasoning on this? I wrote: I believe it is to Marshall Farms benefit to allow someone (a knowledgeable private party) to visit the breeding facility and it raises even more red flags in my eyes that they wont do this. Diane Killian wrote: They have allowed knowledgeable individuals to tour their facilities. Additionally, they have always received praise from these visitors. It has been posted to the FML in the past. I write: Recently? Were these people who have visited been involved with the breeding processes there? Did these visitors get to see the elaborate computer system on tracking the ferrets, Marshall claims to have? Did they get to see first hand the shipping department in progress? I wrote: Also, three vets here in my state, do not feel MF is a good place and shudder at all the young ferrets they have seen from there with chronic health problems. Diane Killian wrote: It has often been stated that not all ferrets with two dots are from Marshall. Your local experiences are different from all but a few other pockets in the country. This would definitely validate the idea that there are fraudulent business practices used by other ranches who would closely match the term 'mill'. I write: Yup. Guess my area is different and that is amusing since I thought Petco stores practiced the same procedures. I am referring to several that Petco has had examined when they first come in to the store - paperwork, shipping crate intact. The ferrets that I have taken in have been directly from Petco with all paperwork/receipts intact. I have rescued a few and have also had my own Marshall Farms ferrets. I am sure that it has happened that people have "faked" MF ferrets, but to suggest that this is the case here, is purely a mistake, unless Marshall Farms has been taking other breeders' ferrets and putting the two dots in the ear and passing them off to Petco as being from their breeding facilities. Petco (the two in my area) get the ferrets DIRECTLY from Marshall Farms - no middle entity. Is this what Marshall Farms has stated to you about why they are repeatedly accused of producing unhealthy ferrets? I would LOVE to hear from people in all these other areas who have discovered that they have "fake" Marshall Farms ferrets and also would like to know how it was determined that they are "fakes". I bet it is not as widespread as you claim, but if so, how come Marshall Farms has not prosecuted any of the suppliers or "fakers"? Lack of proof? MOST businesses would be all over this one because it is a reflection of their "product" and reputation. To those of you who have experienced "fake" MF ferrets, please come forward on the FML. I wrote: I encourage you to view some of my posts on experiences I have had with Marshall Farms, as well as others. You will then be able to conclude if they are knowledgable and/or responsible breeders. Diane Killian wrote: And check what we have written over a much longer time, after much more experience with Marshall and other ranches over the years. To make such an assessment, some separate knowledge of ferret ranches, reputable private breeders and less savory backyard breeders is required, not just an anecdotal assessment of only one's own experiences. I write: EXACTLY! Re-read the above excerpt. I encourage a person to lookat all of it and not just take someone's word or something they read on the Internet. I encourage them to go one step further...call Marshall Farms and ask questions. Otherwise, you cannot make an accurate, unbiased decision on what Marshall is capable or not capable of addressing. Once again, I can provide a name and number of a "higher-up", who is not in the customer service department. Diane Killian has written that nobody has privately asked them to provide their source at Marshall Farms, that is simply untrue. I asked them to come forward and email it to me both on the FML and privately (over a year ago). What is amusing to me is that the person or people that they talk to over there could also be pulling the wool over their eyes since (as far as I have heard from the Killians) they have not toured the facility with their own eyes. In a sense, the Killians are simply defending a place that they have not visited. My problems with Marshall Farms are solely based on the lack of knowledge they have displayed when I have called them and the other experiences I have had when I have called them about yet another ferret under age one, dying (and yes, paperwork is still intact). I would gladly change my stance on them if they had some logical reason for what I have witnessed, but nobody there can provide any. My first ferret was a Marshall Farms ferret and I had all the faith in the world in Marshall Farms (perhaps they were smaller then). However, since I have experienced sheer ineptitude from them since, I had to change my opinion. I am defending my position on this and do not wish to start another flaming war with the Killians, nor do I wish to subject the FML to further exchanges like the past. I just cannot sit back and allow my knowledge to be put down (or for Diane to call me a "recent" ferret owner). My response is civil and to the point and will remain this way. Thanks for being patient, especially BIG. [Posted in FML issue 3524]