Danielle wrote: >My response: Perhaps it was APF? I would not be surprised as there >are some factions on that board who enjoy hurting others and crossing >the line on legalities. > ... >My response: I find that odd too, thank you for stating it! As far as >it being embarassing to you to be a part of such a "mean- spirited >group", if it is so embarassing, why stay? I don't understand why anyone >would remain a part of something that is such an "embarassment" to them. >That is really insulting to ALL the people on the FML. I know what you >mean by "embarassing" though, I was embarassed to even read the >alt.pets.ferrets board the few times I needed to go there. Now that >board IS mean-spirited! Personally, I take exception to this. I've been subscribed to alt.pets.ferrets for some years now, although I did spend a hiatus from it recently due to problems with getting a full internet connection, and therefore an inability to get newsgroups at all. While alt.pets.ferrets can be rough at times, I have yet to see it get rough without some kind of provocation. Generally, that provocation is intense - receiving little to no negative response until some individuals (and these vary depending on circumstance) may 'snap' at a continued egging on by the provoker. Other situations, which are rare, but can happen, are people who are new to netiquette who may be mistaken for trolls. Trolls are not accorded the same respect on apf as most people, and unfortunately for the new person in this situation, this can sometimes mean that someone gets burned because of bad wording. Thankfully, those times*are* few and far between, and when it's discovered that a mistake has been made, apologies are tendered. A vast majority of the alt.pets.ferrets that *I* have seen, in years of being subscribed, has been helpful, friendly, and close. People who join apf can get into a spirited debate if they so choose, there *are* limits on what is given and received, although those limits do tend to exceed that of a normal moderated forum. There is a lot of 'self- moderating' in effect on apf, although people new to the newsgroup - or newsgroups in general - who don't realise this. If one of the normal group goes overboard, others will tell them so. If someone seems to be in genuine distress - even new people - the others tend to band around them in comfort. Of course, there are cases where people troll for responses so badly that the long-term members of the group find it difficult to take anything they say at face value - such as the person who has came in to apf for months at a time, first posting 'helpful' hints with information that can easily kill ferrets... then posting disparaging remarks about individuals, then posting libellous remarks about specific breeders and shelters... the same person continued on the same vein for some time, then disappeared for months at a time, and returned only to start all over again. When this person first started, people in the newsgroup gave them the benefit of the doubt for almost eight months before finally giving up on them. After this person had been gone a while, and returned again, the people on the newsgroup gave them the benefit of the doubt once more, but when a pattern showed itself to be establishing, they were less than forbearing. The third time, anyone new to the newsgroup probably wouldn't have been given a good impression, since this person was not accepted *at all* and in fact, was warned against vociferously by many of the long-term members. The ones that I've seen who *have* crossed the line on legalities, as you've so elegantly put it, have - interestingly enough - been the trolls. Yes, some people have posted addresses and phone numbers, which I personally don't agree with, but it's *not* illegal. Those details were either given by the person initially, or were readily found online in a ten second search through the online phone book. Heck, you could even find my address and phone number online - it's on my website! If those details were suppressed, or 'private' it would be illegal to give out those details - unless, of course, the person themselves listed their own details online. I find it sad that members of the ferret community find it fit to do such things as threatening to report Californian ferret owners to the CA DF&G; stalking other ferret owners; calling the workplace of shelter operators and telling their employers that the shelter operator has been arrested for 'drugs'; stealing credit cards and using them "in support" of a shelter so that the shelter faces potential closure, paying off a debt they never incurred, or a potential jail term... I also find it sad that some members of the ferret community seem fixated on other people to the point of attempting to get them evicted from their homes, fired from their jobs, or have their children taken from them. It's terrible that some members of the ferret community can spread lies and innuendo about others, and because of a respected standing in the community, they're automatically believed, and the person they're spreading lies about is automatically branded "bad"... What's terrible, are these are simply the cases that I personally know of, I've heard rumours of more which I'm not even going to go into. [Posted in FML issue 3456]