I have had first hand experience with a large number (around 30) of retired or culled breeders from Two Pole Pumpkin about three years ago, plus second hand experience about the conditions at Two Pole. Nearly half of the unwanted ferrets that were purchased from Two Pole (no, they were not relinquished, they had to be purchased) had some form of genetic problems, mostly involving facial or limb deformities. Most of the ferrets were severe biters, although this may have been from lack of handling rather than genetic dispositions. The second hand information about the conditions at Two Pole came from the shelter operator who purchased the Two Pole retirees. The entire facility is outdoors, with a large roof structure (no walls) providing shelter from the rain (or snow) and direct sun. Rows of wire cages ran the length of the ferretry with bare wire bottoms and only a wood plank for a place to sleep. Feces and urine drop through the wire floor to the ground. Ferrets do not get out to play. Retirees were not euthanized, but are forced to endure life confinement in their small wire cages (rather than working with a shelter to place them, and no I don't consider holding out for a price to be "working with a shelter"). I think Carla's comments about the Oregon ferret community failing Two Pole are partly correct, but when help and guidance are rejected, it really is difficult to make a positive difference. Leonard Bottleman [log in to unmask] [Posted in FML issue 3209]