Always check with vet first and when a cause is treatable do that first, but if vet okays don't forget things like Range of Motion exercises to prevent further problems (Can be doen in or out of water milder warmeer than ferret's body temp depedingon what individual ferret comes to prefer -- some who nomrally hated water change that opinion in this situation), and don't forget that a panty hose sling can be useful. Here's how to make one: select thepantyhose type by your own height (Can even have ones of different colors for different human family members so no one has to stoop.), place the feet of a pair one on top of the other. Sew these together to form a flat hammock. I sewed a circle -- would look like if you drew a circle on the top of your foot. For the handle roll the top portion of hte pantyhose and sew which wil give yo a very comfy handle. These work marvelously. Don't forget that there are also professionally made wheelchairs should one becoem needed; we used Doggone. Off hand, I think the e-mail is [log in to unmask] (without "e' because it's too much like someone else's address) As some here know, part of what Steve is involved with as a researcher includes continuing interactions with those studying what makes some lists work and others fail. This actually is a subject under study regularly by Internet anthropologist and Internet sociologists. The FML is a list that actually gets examined and studied because it is so unusually successful on two counts: first, lists normally last only a few years, but the FML has been around for what -- 12 years now? Second, most fall apart at around 1,000 members, but the FML has over 3,000, and has had for a very long time. The two worst things for killing lists are: having the information go dry (too many repeats of the same thing), and poor handling of dissent. There HAS to be dissent present but it has to be stopped when it gets too extreme or has gone on too long. Given that the FML's SUCCESS is so unusual and so long-term it's obvious that Bill Gruber is sure doing some things completely right -- that he attains a BALANCE which is all too rare in this world. Yes, we all are part of a list which is so unusual in its success that it is studied for why it works so very well. I have noticed that those (very few) who complain about the balance here seem to be the same few people, over and over again through the years. Some few are very kind and tender folks who simply don't like anything that shows any disagreement. Some few are those blasters who often have to re-write posts to prevent them from making the list too uncomfortable. A few are those who themselves do not have long-term or large lists no matter how many times they have tried, let alone one which meets both criteria for unsually successful. The private things I've heard sure don't seem to add up to many people at all (over the entire life of the FML), and seems to pretty well be the same ones over and over again through the years, often when these people are also angry about something else, like a personal disagreement that they are upset about not being able to make it public -- especially in a one-sided fashion (as we have all noticed at times with some folks :-) ) -- and allowing that to spill over in all directions. EVERYONE HERE IS PART OF THE FML SUCCESS STORY! That sure feels good, huh? There has been balance, fairness, and even-handedness; Bill (BIG) has unusual abilities for which everyone can be grateful. THANKS SO MUCH, BILL! Bob really knows ferret osteology, comparative mammology, and historical aspects of ferrets. Losing him does amount to losing an important resource. It's very sad for everyone who wants to learn. Hopefully, someday it will be possible to have him return in a safe fashion that is fair enough, maybe the other person will cause enough general discomfort on the FML to warrant a choice being made, or perhaps the need for Bob's level of expertise may cause him to be sorely needed here for the benefit of the list as a whole. Time will tell. It's terrible when a person who is physically ill is not treated with healing kindness by his fellows, terrible when any member feels harassed over years, and horrid when something private spills over into the FML with a loss which hurts everyone but one. Bob was not only very kind to most here but was an unusual and important resource to help all, filling an info slot which has now been left sadly empty. 20years ago I spent time as the student-curator of a comparative mammolgy teaching collection in a university and I can tell you with assurance that Bob filled a void with information that is not easily come by, and is important for ferrets. Having Bob leave is such a loss for all! Have not been to Randy's shelter but am impressed by his providing profesional contacts to check on the status and conditions. That's the way to go! [Posted in FML issue 3221]