I have not followed the whole thread on nose thumping, but having bought, owned and/or adopted 6 ferrets (three of which were biters, one severe) let me tell you how I broke all of them of the habit in no more than two days, without thumping or scruffing (bitter apple also did not work on my fist biter at all). What I would do is allow (not stop) the fert to bite me (some times drawing blood). I would grab the lower jaw with two fingers from the other hand, Yell no, and use my fingers pushing the skin to the side of the mouth, to force it open to retrieve my bitten finger/skin. I would then hold the head/mouth by the lower jaw, supporting the fert under the arms, and not let the fert wiggle away, until he/she 'gave in', (stopped fighting, usually less than a minute). Then I would kiss the fert, and talk nice, offer some ferratone to stimulate licking, first on the bottle cap then on my finger/hand and eventually face. This technique worked in two attempts on one fert (a new kit), another took two days ( a 4 month old kit whoes owner gave up trying to stop her from biting). Ferts apparently don't like their heads held still. It does not require any squeezing or pressure, if you get your fingers behind the lower jaw bone. They try to backout, but can't because you basically made a 'hole' too small to fit though. I usually have their face nose to nose with mine, and thats when they give up. Usually when I pickup a fert, I usually get at least a quick lick. I can put my hand in the middle of a fert tag team wrestling match, with biting and chirping going on, roll and wrestle with them, they will hug my hand and kiss it in the middle of the fight. Most of my friends are amazed that my ferts come when called by name. Using ferretone as a reward, and much patience, I have trained each one to come when I call their name or jingle keys (regardless of what they are doing). One will come running when I ask who wants a bath! Two will roll over for treats, and they all come running when I ask who wants chicken!. I don't mean to condem anyones attempts to train their ferts, just give you another method to try that may be effective for you. luvin the babies Fillup, Cocoa, Jill and Jose Joe [Posted in FML issue 3065]