Hello Sukie. I hope it's okay that I will also cross post this to the FML, per your example. Thanks for forwarding this post to me in advance. I got the opportunity to read it on its own merits and not as part of the FML digest. I will admit that the long strings of comments or flames can color how I read things. This is why I usually reread any post I plan to comment on. Let me start off by saying that I didn't actually read Vickie's post as being so insultingly defensive, but after reading the responses, I can see their point. I suppose the fact the Vickie brought up the many points that I, myself, had been questioning, let me ignore any possible off-color comments. You make a very good point about the fact that perhaps Vickie should not have identified herself as AFA President without adding a statement that the post was her own and not theirs. It hadn't actually occurred to me until you put the thought into my head tho. I agree with your conclusion that we, the ferret community, and the ferret organizations should get together in discussion and see what we can come up with so that such things do not happen again. A set system for impartially investigating claims would be nice (but who is truly impartial?). Heck, even a system for making claims and complaints would be a good thing; perhaps a form can be made up or an email link placed on the organization's web site. Camcorders may sound like a good idea, but they are expensive and the money would be better spent elsewhere, perhaps on educational material that addresses proper handling, training and discipline of ferrets. Having been at the show in question, the room was so large that it would have taken multiple camcorders to cover the whole room anyway. I do think good can come of this fiasco. It can serve as a lesson which will inspire each of us, I hope, to keep our eyes open for abuse and teach us to speak up and to report anything we see (and not just in regards to ferret abuse either). For the organizations, not just the AFA of course, it brings to them the chance to address a point of concern to the ferret community they serve. It might behoove representatives from the various ferret organizations to post for public view their rules and standards in regards to acceptable behavior at their shows. But they should do so as you suggest, as an organization, not individuals. Again, thank you for your consideration, and for your well spoken/written post. Anastasia Kidd Plainfield, NJ **weekend email: [log in to unmask]** [Posted in FML issue 3007]