Diane and Bill Killian wrote: >>From: Nicole... >>I am appalled ... so young...they still have stitches >Those are NOT Marshall kits. Marshall does not use sutures... They have >a brochure they send to vets that details the clips they use instead. WOW! That IS interesting! Then that's one sure-fire way to know when ferrets which are not MF are being passed off as being from MF. It really is NOT unusual to run into kits attributed to sources other than their real ones, and MF isn't the only source to be named falsely by such crooks. A few years ago a distributor here in NJ was being gone after; they were selling fur farm fitch as pet ferrets and since these were from long-time fur stock their longevity and health weren't a concern except up to reaching adult size so the fur ferrets had a LOT of health problems as well as behavioral ones since not from docile stock. Some of those were being passed off as being from major farms when they weren't. The ASPCA and Associated Humane Societies were going after them, but they'd pack up and move between state borders whenever things got too hot and then just start again. Very bad situation. A LOT of problems can be distributor related rather than origin related. Of course, a person can just go to a small breeder with KNOWN good conditions, too, if near enough to any at home or in travels. Then you have to made. The Killians also wrote: >There have also been unfortunately problems that hurt some of Marshall's >competitors such as Path Valley. But there is plenty of competition for >Marshall Farms. But none have as good a name penetration. Loads of people know about Hagan and Triple F, too -- also good sized operations, also with their problems. When large breeder problems are discussed and tackled it would be GREAT if ALL the large breeders were tackled, but there are a few people out there who have loud voices and have a personal gripe about MF so they bash that one and then IGNORE the same things when they happen elsewhere. (The folks who try to change all in that grouping sure have my respect, though!!!!!!!!) Sure, there are things which need changing, but many of them need changing in more than just one place! Meanwhile, do remember that (as far as I know) MF's the only one of the group which has tried to help get improvements in veterinary care and legislation for ferrets. They have a good side, too. Sure, these changes would help them, but they also would help their competitors who aren't putting in the time or money, and they certainly help all of us and -- most importantly -- our ferrets. Meanwhile, let's thank Petco for requiring an OLDER age at receipt for ferrets, and encourage them to go even higher to 8 weeks or older, and let's encourage other petstores to also require older ages. That would help FORCE the farms to not send them out as young. From what I have read of conditions over the years the worst are the backyard breeders and the fur farms, the middle ground (with a large number of ferrets affected and certainly improvements needed but certainly not close to being next to being minions of devils (unlike some backyard breeders and their ilk -- if you'll allow me a wide word berth), the best are conscientious small breeders. Anastasia is right on the mark about diseases. At this point there are NO studies indicating health differences. Yes, there are probably some breeders with healthier kits than the norm, just as there are some with less healthy ones, but the studies to indicate just WHY certain illnesses develop or if there are actual differences in rates just aren't there. We know that these are illnesses which most commonly are old age related and we know that whole ferrets appear to be far less likely to have adrenal growths even in old age, but we do NOT know have the solid data to know if there is ANY difference between late vs. early neuter, if a virus might help trigger any of these old age illnesses and conditions (most adrenal growths, most insulinoma, most cardiomyopathy, most...), what parts the home environment plays, etc. I think that sometimes people just want someone to blame. The problem is that when an easy scapegoat is chosen then the scapegoat is so used to being blamed for everything from the price of cherry pies through to the solar winds that the scapegoat stops listening. Once listening stops, learning stops. Once learning stops the ability to change the problems which really do exist is reduced or stopped. [Posted in FML issue 3027]