I imagine Kathy will receive mixed reviews on her post so I wanted to back her right away. I wasn't there, I didn't see it, but from her description I agree that this type of discipline is extreme. I work with what some call viscious (I don't believe there are any viscious biters - only mishandled, abused, neglected, non-taught) and I would never use that type of discipline to train the ferrets. This isn't the first time someone has posted about the way a ferret has been disciplined by a breeder at an AFA affair. Does anyone know if this is the same breeder? Since the discipline is viewed as extreme by others, shouldn't this person, or people, take a look at their practice? It doesn't sound like the breeder attempted to explain their actions to Kathy, only that excuses were made for the breeder. Tsk, tsk. There is no excuse for abuse or extreme discipline. Anyway, if you want to flame me for my opinion feel free. I have a delete key too. Thank you Kathy for speaking out. I wish more people would. Warm hugs to all. tle Troy Lynn Eckart Ferret Family Services http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~sprite/ffs.html http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Haven/5481/ Please sign up to support our charity http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=46&mid=58395 [Posted in FML issue 3003]