Teri, It is a relief to now learn that some of what you wrote is a PERSONAL opinion, as opposed to a formal group stance, something which certainly was not earlier made clear. Still, there may come a time when a group stance is wanted, and therefore it would be most in the interest of the AVAR as well as in the interest of ferrets if complete data were studied by all of your board members at some times in the future. Obviously, it would be wrong for your group to take any position publicly WITHOUT having the data needed first, and it most definitely has NOT had complete information to date. I am glad that you have now clarified the position. As specifically mentioned in several of my letters beforehand as we continued discussing this topic (as well as in the first letter which mentioned that these replies would go the FML), I DID share what you sent with the thousands of members of the FML as I will this reply in the series, so a large number of people will breathe sighs of relief, while many of us will remain just as interested in helping the AVAR members have accurate and complete information, something which has obviously so far been sorely lacking in relation to ferrets. Your assumption that the same stock could survive in the "wild" lacks any proof. There is a good possibility that pet ferret stock may partly be not European Polecat. There is also very strong information that domestic ferrets which have not been back-crossed with European Polecats do NOT establish in releases, and some question if even the crosses establish. Meanwhile, it is only recently that the European Polecat in some of its range has begun making a comeback, but it still faces the imported American Mink which apparently can often out-compete polecats and may face a future population crash as a secondary feature of the frog die-backs which have been occurring world-wide since these are a stable. If you would like to learn more about the difficulties faced even by assorted WILD animals of known wild origins which are reintroduced to habitat which still exists or is only partly modified, you will want to read articles by people such as Russ Mittermeier and Bill Konstant. The difficulties even with such optimal situations is NOT by any means easy. If the genetic make-up of pet stock ferrets IS different from the polecat relatives, or if the European Polecat populations remain the only (and vulnerable) representatives, then genocide might simply be the natural conclusion to wide sterilization of pet stock. Your statements reveal a very idealistic but naive view of wild environmental conditions which are constantly being depleted. We'd all like the world to be perfect, but it's a very damaged world and some parts just can't be fit back into place because the given place isn't there any longer. I do not understand why it bothers you that I stated that industry-wide improvements would better help ferrets than simply targeting one mill. The competitors of MF include some which are actually worse. To target MF rather than finding ways to force industry-wide improvements (or if increasingly unaffordable -- to force the end of "production") and WITHOUT also targeting their competitors so that they MUST meet the same standards simply would open the market up for worse than now exists. MF has its very serious problems, with no doubt at all, but it's not the nastiest kid on the block in terms of some of them. The improvements need, therefore, to be industry-wide ones: limits on pet stores in relation to pet sales (perhaps finally the end of pet stores selling animals), strict shipping rules, better conditions, etc. You will find it interesting to learn that there actually are HUNDREDS of ferret shelters in the U.S., an increasing number of which have not only their states' accreditations but also even federal tax deductibility status. Many, many people adopt, some foster, many are shelter volunteers, and so on. There still IS a problem with public shelters and pounds often killing pet ferrets, but even those situations are being tackled on a daily constructive basis by a large number of ferret groups. You have failed to take this aspect into account, as well. As I have said, you are operating with very little data in reaching the conclusions which you hold. We all know that we want to have the BEST possible conditions for animals. We differ greatly in what we consider the best conditions, especially for animals which simply do NOT have a wild option. To reach the conclusion which will BEST serve the animals it is ESSENTIAL to have complete and accurate data FIRST. BTW, may I or others have permission to also share your comments in full in such publications as the AFAR or Modern Ferret? Both of those just recently have asked me, but since I did not specifically mention them in discussion with you they have considerately not duplicated your replies. If so, would you, please, clarify which are your personal opinions as opposed to AVAR group stance? Was it all personal opinion? Obviously, there is no problem with short quotes of information which was earlier readily made public, but without clarification of whether the board's stance is accurately portrayed it would be only fair if personal opinions are described as such. If all of the opinions are simply personal ones then my own personal opinion is that it would make sense for educational opportunities to be created for the AVAR board members and votes taken before AVAR makes any public statements on ferrets again, if for no reasons other than to avoid inaccuracy and the damage it can cause, as well as to avoid placing the AVAR board in an uncomfortable position. Sukie [Posted in FML issue 2918]