I have been trying to hold my peace about AVAR up to now, but now I really feel that I need to say some things. 1. Thank you, Sukie, for keeping your correspondence with Teri civil and educational. My greatest fear when the issue of AVAR's attitudes about ferrets came up was that it would ultimately hurt the legalization movement in California. To the best of my knowledge, AVAR has not actively opposed ferret ownership in CA, and I was concerned that by pressing the matter we would unwittingly put the ferret ban onto their agenda. Sukie, you did an admirable job of describing the needs of domesticated ferrets and the current shelter situation, and it is a relief to find out that the opinions espoused by Teri are personal and do not reflect the mindset of the entire organization. 2. I really feel that somebody needs to stand up for AVAR at this point. I was personally very surprised by the first few letters from Teri, because her description of AVAR's policies was so very different from what I have observed about this group. I know them from one of their major campaigns, the fight to ban the forced molting of commercial laying hens. In that case, at least, I believe that they have done their research because I have been able to verify many of their claims through independent sources (such as the egg industry itself). Also, they seem to be fighting for animal welfare in the proper order by starting with the most egregious act of animal abuse, the purposeful withholding of food or nutrients from animals for commercial benefit. The question of whether or not their ultimate goal is to liberate all animals from human control is irrelevant, because they only actively fight the cases which obviously constitute abuse. Finally, they "play within the rules." They are not out "freeing" battery laying hens from their imprisonment; they are petitioning lawmakers and other veterinary organizations to bring about changes in laws in the U.S. 3. I hope that BIG will allow me to air just a few sentences about the animal rights philosophy. Even if one doesn't believe that all animals have want/should have the right to live free from human confinement, it is still possible to fight for other less drastic rights. Just as there are all types of human rights (free speech, bearing arms, etc...), there are many types of rights that government could grant to domesticated animals if it so chose. The right to food and enough space to comfortably move around in would be some good examples. I really hate to see "animal rights" groups being bashed as a whole in forums such as the FML by people who obviously care a great deal about the welfare of animals. Just remember that PETA's tactics are not synonymous with the animal rights movement. There really are some decent animal rights groups out there. I would also like to say that ferret lovers should be especially empathetic towards those groups fighting for the welfare of "food" animals. We all know how distressing it is when people say to us, "Oh what's the big deal... they're only ferrets." Well, there really are people out there with pet chickens or pet pigs who get to know the personalities and needs of these animals and who can't bear the thought of the miserable treatment these animals receive in commercial production facilities. Anyway, enough of sad thoughts. Hugs to all those wonderful fuzzies out there. Julie [Moderator's note: Julie posts anonymously only due to her location, not because she might have possibly controversial opinions. BIG] [Posted in FML issue 2924]