>From:    mnoble <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: MF and Labs and Path Valley
>Bill Killian wrote:
>>Then we have to say you are wrong..........
 
Please do not insult Diane but insinuating that she does not contribute.
 
>First off I didn't say anything about research on ferrets for ferrets.
 
You made statements that were flat out wrong as best as we can determine.
This new statement doesn't change that your first post was wrong nor
whether this new post is equally wrong and insulting.
 
>Second I will again say that most medical research on ferrets is for
>convenience products.
 
Then again we will say you are wrong.  Offer proof and we will be willing
to retract our denial but you have a lot of information to counter.  In
the old edition of the Fox book start at page 305 and continue to page 335.
In the new edition start with page 487 and continue to page 549.  Topics
include viral diseas models, cardiovascular research, behavioral research,
reproductive neuroendocrinology and parasitologic research.  But nary a
word on cosmetic testing.  Ferrets are used for many research areas but
there is no mention in any source we have seen that ferrets are indeed
used for cosmetic research.
 
>No matter how much nutra sweet you pump into a ferret it does not
>prove a thing.
 
Nutrasweet research by the way is not cosmetic.  Because you can not
understand a science does nto make it meaningless.
 
>The labs that MF solicits in their ads for the perfect lab animals are
>not labs to improve the lives of ferrets.
 
MF often donates ferrets for ferret research as we understand it.  Seems
like a good way to let the further lives of retired breeders meaningful
again.  Those in ferret research already know MF and don't need to read
the ads.
 
It seems we will have to consider you one of those unwilling to be
corrected.  Its a shame.  We will expect to have to correct your errors
lest others willing to learn mistake your input on this topic as informed.
 
>I am sure you know "only good" lab people.
 
We have a fairly large sample set.  It is highly unlikely that our sample
set is that far off of the whole set of those involved in animal research.
Do you actually have information that is not from incredible sources such
as HSUS or PETA?  Something real and tangible?  Anything?
 
>Are the medical schools that use ferrets to teach intabation also doing
>the ferrets a service?
 
Of course not.  Intubation is to teach doctors to save human lives mostly.
But that is an animal rights as opposed to animal welfare debate.  Its a
straw man argument with no answers.
 
>One question Zen.... are you willing to sell your kits to a lab to further
>the research for ferret diseases?  And how about to a lab to study the
>effects of God knows what chemical at huge concentrations?
 
No.  And we are ever so grateful that Marshall Farms is.  They sold into
the research market before they sold into the pet market.
 
>From:    John Gordon <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Bravo Zen & MC; 2 M.F. questions
>Recently I read one poster who commented that they "assumed" MF sold the
>majority of their ferrets to labs instead of the public.  Why would this
>person "assume" this?
 
"The Independant Voice" which was a bash Marshall rag printed that MF sells
only up to 10% into the lab market now.
 
>From:    Katherine Hood <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: MF
 
This is meant to provoke thought and perhaps a way to handle what might be
bothering you.  It is not meant as a flame or insult.  Just try to answer
the questions in your own mind and then try to figure out what you really
think needs to be changed.
 
>It really upsets me the things that MF & others does to these babies.
 
What?  What exactly does MF and the others do that makes you so upset?
MF is suppling to pet stores exactly what the pet stores demand.  The pet
stores are trying to get to sell exactly what their customer demand.  So is
it the typical ferret owner including almsto this entire list that upsets
you so?  Many of the memebers of the ferret owning community are now
demanding research into ADV now so we are demanding paid research on
ferrets.  So are you more upset by deaths to Aleutians?  Or research to
prevent it?  Aer you more upset that there are not regulations against
selling ferrets at 7 or 8 weeks of age in pet stores?  Or the painful
deaths of ferrets due to aplastic anemia from ferrets not being altered
early, Pick your own worst evil.
 
diane and bill
--
bill and diane killian
zen and the art of ferrets
http://www.zenferret.com/
mailto:[log in to unmask]
[Posted in FML issue 2961]