I have not been online for several days, and so I was not immediately
aware that my name had come up in reference to a ferret food
discussion, or about one of my past posts. As a result, this response
is perhaps a little late.

First, I want to say that any "opinions" expressed in this post are my
own, and are not meant to reflect the positions of any of the ferret
organizations I am a part of.

Next, I want to thank Sukie for her kind words, and also Linda for
confirming that my old ears did hear what they thought they heard. I
am certain there are others who were at the Portland Ferret Symposium
who can attest to the fact that Bob C. did state that he could find no
evidence that kibble causes dental disease. As Linda stated, he may
have again changed his mind since that time, and that is his
prerogative.

Finally, to the heart of the matter, I want to first make it clear that
I have no quarrels with Kim. I do not always agree with her opinions,
but I respect her right to hold opinions that differ from mine.
Further, while I do not know Kim well, from what she posts on the lists
we are both a member of, I believe she is very committed to providing
the best life possible for her fuzzy companions, and is equally
committed to trying to educate others.

But, I suspect that Kim did not carefully read all of the information
included in my post that was reprinted a few days ago. It seemed to me
that she read that Bob had said kibble does not cause dental disease,
and went off arguing that that could not possibly be true.

After stating that Bob had said that he could not find any evidence
that kibble caused dental disease, I went on to mention that he also
stated kibble did nothing to prevent dental disease. If ferret owners
do not check their ferrets teeth and gums, and take the necessary steps
to provide proper dental hygiene, then ferrets are likely to develop
dental disease.

The post also mentions that there was some discussion during the Vet
Q&A time about dental disease and how common it is. There was a lot of
disagreement on this, with Bob feeling that it was fairly common in pet
ferrets, and some of the vets feeling it was not very common in pet
ferrets.

Kibble will cause an unusual wear pattern in the teeth, but this is not
dental disease. Also, very hard kibbles can scratch the enamel, making
it more susceptible to the formation of tartar.

Now, there are some who may take the position that if kibble does not
prevent dental disease, then it causes it, but that is a bit of a leap.
If by dental disease, we are talking about tooth decay, gingivitis,
periodontal disease and gum abscesses, then tartar is the cause.
According to Wikipedia, " In dentistry
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dentistry> , calculus or tartar is a form
of hardened dental plaque <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_plaque>
It is caused by the continual accumulation of minerals from saliva on
plaque on the teeth. It's rough surface provides an ideal medium for
further plaque formation, threatening the health of the gingiva
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingiva> ." So, saliva causes the
formation of plaque or tartar, and not removing this tartar can lead to
dental disease. Humans are subject to dental disease, too, and except
for a few, like Alexandra and Linda, humans do not eat kibble.

From my perspective, Kim has 2 main faults. The first is that in the
process of trying to educate others to her way of thinking, she
sometimes phrases things in an insulting manner. I agree with those who
have stated that if she would phrase herself differently, she would
fine more people more receptive to her posts. Second, just as Kim says
that many of us are closed minded to new ideas, she seems very closed
minded to hearing what those of us who have had ferrets for longer
periods of time have observed. I am not stating that we shouldn't keep
moving forward, but there is something to be learned for the
observations of people who have had healthy and happy ferrets for many
years.

I got my first 2 ferrets in 1985. At that time, the experts (Chuck and
Fox Morton and Wendy Winstead) advised that pet ferrets should be fed
dry cat food, and so I fed mine ferret Purina Cat Chow (that's right -
not even the kitten formula). A few years later, we were told to feed a
high quality cat food, and so I switched to Hills Science Diet. As time
went on, and more was learned, other changes came about. We started
seeing foods made "exclusively for a ferret's nutritional needs", and
started hearing that ferrets had a need for a higher amount of protein
and fat than previously thought. However, there still have not been any
real scientific studies done on exactly what a ferret's nutritional
needs are.

We know that ferrets should not be fed fruits and veggies. We know they
are obligate carnivores, and need their protein and fat to come from
animal and not plant sources. But we still don't know just how much
protein or fat they need, or for that matter, what other vitamins and
minerals are needed or in what amounts.

Many of you know that I now feed primarily a whole prey (pre-killed and
frozen) diet to my ferrets. But, I do it mainly because that is what
they prefer, and not because I think it is better than anything else.
I only started feeding raw about 4 years ago, so for 20+ years I fed
only kibble to my ferrets. And, guess what - in 20 years I never had a
ferret with dental disease. In fact, only once have I had a ferret need
a tooth pulled, and it was because she was wardancing and throwing her
head side to side. She threw her head (front of her snout) into a metal
table leg, and fractured her upper canine. We tried to save the tooth,
but it was too badly damaged. Otherwise, I have had ferrets who lived
to be 9+ years old, and other than needing their teeth cleaned
occasionally in their later years, did not have any dental problems.
And, in those 20 years, I had a lot of ferrets.

Interestingly enough, I currently have a ferret with an abscess in his
gum. It is at the very back of the jaw, behind the last molar. It does
not appear to involve the tooth. While we (my vet and I) cannot know
for certain, we think he must have cut his gum on a piece of bone, and
bacteria in his mouth caused the abscess to form. There is a cut place
back almost where the jaws meet. Now, something similar could have
happened had he been eating kibble, but in this particular case, it
appears that eating prey caused the abscess. I do not consider this a
reason to quit feeding prey, though.

And, now that I have ferrets who are almost 4 and have been eating
whole prey their entire life, I must say that I am not seeing much of
a difference. Some of them have not needed their teeth cleaned, but
others have. Because scaling teeth can scratch enamel and make it
subject to additional plaque, I take my ferrets to the vet for their
teeth cleaning, so that the teeth can also be polished.

My vet has always been concerned about dental health, and even though I
do my own distemper shots, I do get yearly rabies shots, so he sees all
my ferrets at least once a year, and does a thorough exam on each one.
Part of that yearly exam includes checking the teeth and gums (although
I also check them much more frequently). So, I don't think I have had
ferrets with dental disease that has gone undiagnosed.

I do believe that diet and nutrition are very important to a ferret's
health and well being, but I don't believe there is only one correct
feeding method, or that any feeding method is a magic bullet that will
prevent diseases. Instead, I think that the cause of most ferret
diseases is multifactored. I think that genetics also plays a role, as
do other aspects of husbandry. I also believe that the early spay and
neutering of pet store ferrets plays a big role in their later health.

For the past 15 years, I have had only privately bred ferrets who
are either whole or are late alters. I see very little insulinoma
or adrenal disease in these ferrets. I have also not had a lot of
lymphoma, although I have had many other types of cancer - including
some unusual ones. Within a 6 month period I lost 2 to squamous cell
carcinoma of the anal sac. I have also had 2 with complete A/V node
blocks.

However, my point is simply that diet is only 1 factor out of several
(or perhaps many) that affects a ferrets overall health. I encourage
people to learn as much as they can about a ferret's nutritional needs,
and to try to provide for those needs. But, I do believe that can be
accomplished in more than 1 way. I also encourage people to consider
feeding raw, as my experience is that ferrets much prefer it, but I do
not expect everyone to get on the band wagon.

I also encourage people to feed a variety of foods. While my personal
ferrets are fed primarily raw prey, I also offer cooked meats,
commercially prepared raw meats, freeze dried and other dehydrated
meats, and also canned meats. And, yes, there is always kibble,
although the cat is the one who mostly eats that. I think that offering
a variety of foods with different textures and consistencies is an
important form of mental stimulation for the ferrets. What I recommend
people avoid is foods that contain a lot of plant matter, especially
grains, as plant protein is not good for ferrets.

Anyway, that is just my $0.02 on the issue. I don't pretend to be
the food police, although I am always happy to share my views and
experiences with others.

Danee DeVore
ADV - If your ferret hasn't been tested, you don't know! 
For more information visit: 
http://www.ferretadv.com
ADV - Find out how you can help:
http://help4adv.terrabox.com/

[Posted in FML 6892]