>From:    Paul Ogles <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Chocolate dilute?  Where r my chocs?
 
Sorry if I/we seemed upset.  We/us is diane and bill.  I'll be explicit if I
speak for "others".
 
>Hopefully there is a language problem here, as I have yet to read 2 people
>who seemed to be in agreement, and use the same terminology.
 
Oh yeah that problem again.... I try to learn "everybody's" names and talk
the lingo of whom I'm talking to.  Worst is ugliness like completely
different definitions of "black sable" - both of which definitions I
dislike.
 
>My intention was to avoid talking about other traits- my 'light/dark' is
>your 'full color/albino', but I consider what I am calling cinnamon an
>albino variation.
 
I think you have to leave "silver" out of it for now.  I think the "black"
or "silver" color is another gene other than the one that makes sables or
chocolates.  Then I'll buy your light dark phenotypes.  Even if genotype
here isn't always parallel.
 
>For instance, I had several crosses where chocolate and albino could
>have combined, but I never got a 'cinnamon/dilute' before deliberately
>adding 'cinnamon'.
 
Okay what did yo start with and what did you get?  An albino could be a
sable rather than a chocolate so it will lead to non-cinnamons.
 
And I am posing my theory as a theory.  It matches our litters better than
previous theories.
 
But to make it uglier.  I'm also convinced that a sable and a chocolate
genotype can appear the same color depending upon other genes.  Think about
Mo'Bob's continuum bit.
 
>By the way, do 'we' agree on albino vs.  REW?  I've seen no evidence here
>for separate traits.  Explainations, but no experiences.
 
My current thinking - yes.  What we call REW and albino are the same.
 
>From:    JESSI BROWN <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: dilute chocolate/cinnamon connections
>Both dilution and chocolate are recessive to full color and black.  Based on
>what I've gathered from the argument however, I don't think your chocolates
>and rabbit chocolate are the same at all.
 
Discussion I hope not argument...
 
But why do you think a ferret chocolate isn't like a rabbit chocolate?  Fara
Shimbo even used the termlilac for a dilution of chocolate.  Means the same
ferret is lilac, champagne and cinnamon... Wow!
 
Do all colors in a rabbit dilute?  They don't in horses and dogs.  Do not
know on other species.
 
>The alleles for cinnamon and red color traits (two different things
>completely) are on different alleles from the others already mentioned -
>it's extremely complicated!
 
If this is why then lets back up...
 
Red Sable is not chocolate.  And cinnamon is not cinnamon.  <HUH?!?> What I
mean is that FaraShimbo/Furo/AFA call the brown ferrets that are not sable
chocolates.  They call the darker ferrets with red in them red or red sable.
The dilute of this red sable is cinnamon.
 
What is often called cinnamon LIFE/indepedant is not red.  Some claim it is
but its not.  It is a golden to ashen beige.  This is the dilute of
chocolate.
 
What the AFA/FURO call cinnamon is either extremely rare or doesn't know
exist.  I back the champagne name (or palomino or heck lilac) but not
cinnamon because of this.  Seque time - this will make me unacceptable to
some for...
 
>I second the motion that a group of knowledgeable breeders should get
>together, standardize color names and descriptions, and struggle through
>some detailed genetic analysis.
 
Man I wish we could.  The politics in the ferret world have descended to
nearly the nastiest levels possible - no violence yet but false police and
criminal charges have been filed I really wish I knew how to get the
nastiness to stop long enough to actually help ferrets and solve these very
basic problems.
 
In terms of organizing this effort who would get to name the people to be
involved?  Just picking them out would be a problem.
 
bill and diane killian
zen and the art of ferrets
http://www.zenferret.com/
mailto:[log in to unmask]
[Posted in FML issue 1928]