>From:    Troy Lynn Eckart <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Scruffing and gentle training
>First off I must say that I did not attend the show or see the twisting
>scruffing incident that was posted.
 
You were not there.  True.  We were.  We saw what happened.  We also know
the person involved.  We
 
What happened was mostly a case of bad judgement.  No abuse.
 
We have no idea what this twisted scruff bit is all about.  The woman's arm
was in weird positions.  The ferret was not.
 
>A bad reputation will not reflect only on the person but also the
>organization on a whole.
 
This is true.  Rival groups in particular LOVE to make a big deal of every
little thing that they can when some one in one group slips up.
 
>It doesn't matter how long someone has been doing something, IF it is not
>being done humanely or correctly, they need to be politely told and their
>organization informed as well.
 
Your methods are NOT the only "correct" methods.  They are just your
methods.
 
Pain was not really being caused as far as I can tell in this case.  The
ferret in question is apparently just a whiner.  We have a Pomeranian dog
like that so we understand.  But yes pain can be a useful tool in training
animals.  Pain is not the same as damaging.  Injuring an animal (even
humans) is not a useful tool.
 
Pain is part of our very makeup.  It is how we know when something is
wrong.  When we or a ferret touch a hot stove to use the cliched example
we feel pain and remove ourselves from the pain.  That is not evil in any
way.  Pain is if you think about it a good thing.  Those folks who lose
sensations from nerve damage lose the ability to know when they are being
injured - that is a very bad thing.  Pain is not a bad thing.  The cause
of pain might or might not be.
 
>Perhaps it is a good thing that I had not attended this particular
>show....
 
Maybe you should have.  Then you could know what you were talking about
rather than assuming.
 
>Please if anyone feels the need to flame, do it to my personal address so
>as not to use up valuable FML space.
 
Disagreeing with you as we have is not flaming.
 
>From:    Robynn McCarthy <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: tossing ferrets..
 
Sure.  I have ferrets that like to play "catch".  In the case in question a
woman was playing what she calls "cat".  You hold the ferret belly up, toss
him up a few inches and he'll twist around and you catch him belly down.
Like a cat that always lands on its feet.  Its not cruel.  It was probably
not a great idea only because of location.  Just cited you as first in the
list that admit to playing with your ferrets.
 
>From:    "BRUCE R. LARSON" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: vet recommendation in Roanoke
 
Beautiful area!  I'm the other end of the great valley of virginia.
Roanoke used to be "important" in the ferret world back in the days of the
IFA.  Some of the real old timers might get you in touch with more local
vets but I hear wonderful things about a vet thats I believe across the
mountain towards Va Tech.
 
No water bottles while driving.  Just offer them water every hour or so.
Food every couple of hours.  If you set things up right (and are lucky)
you can offer the water while still driving.  We typically stop for the
feedings.
 
>From:    Meesh Meesh <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Fatal Lab Tests
 
If you are not born you certainly will not die and if you are born it will
certainly lead to death.  But is it not silly to thus call birth the cause
of death?
 
>Hence, (almost) *all* lab animal testing *is* fatal.
 
Semantics yes, but your statement is not correct.  The testing is NOT
fatal.  The cessation of testing is fatal.  The difference is important
in how it can be addressed.
 
Lab testing is not fatal.  More and more animals will be adopted out IF the
animal rightists would instead of calling all testing vivisection would
instead take the animals best interests in mind and work on placements
after the tests.  Since ferrets are indeed used in testing and will be for
the forseeable future it would make sense for those interested in activisim
in lab ferret welfare should take up the cause of reaching out to save
retired lab ferrets.
 
-bill and diane
--
bill and diane killian
zen and the art of ferrets
http://www.zenferret.com/
mailto:[log in to unmask]
 
[Moderator's note: A couple of points about animal rights issues.  Firstly,
please let's drop the lab-testing debate -- it's not pertinent to the FML.
 
Secondly: "messh meesh" was upset with me note in yesterday's FML.  I made
a comment about animal testing debates at the end of her post and she felt
that by doing so I labeled her as an animal rights activist.
 
For the record: I have no idea what her views are on these issues and
I did not intend to label her in any way.  Apologies if I came across
differently.  BIG]
[Posted in FML issue 2759]