>From:    "Carl.Baewer" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Lethargic Ferret, Please read reply
>isn't it possible to put some of this "Marshall Farms" is or could be
>responsible for the ferret getting Adrenal disease in writing ?
 
This is why we keep asking those who think it could be Marshall's fault to
do basic research.  Its also why we are brainstorming for ways to try to
track these problems.  Just saying its their fault accomplishes nothing.  We
need to figure out what causes these problems and then how we can fight the
problems.
 
Lymphosarcoma seems to possibly be viral if I remember correctly Maybe the
others are as well.  Maybe they aren't.  But we need to figure out why some
people have many problems while others don't with their ferrets.
 
Finger pointing for guilt doesn't help; finger pointing for actual cause can
help.  There does seem to be a problem; lets DO somthing.  Not just talk
about whose fault it is.  Some are pointing the finger at MF saying genetic.
Some saying early alter.  Well which is it?
 
If its genetic then Marshall's breeders will show the same rates of
occurance at the same ages as their sold pets.  For testing this we could
probably get Marshall's assistance.  They'll donate for ECE studies.  Maybe
for this - BUT we have to make it a real test not a witchhunt.
 
If its early alter we have to figure out why some late alters from
"reputable" breeders also get adrenal tumors.  This would imply multiple
causes or an incomplete understanding of the situation.
 
>From:    Melissa Litwicki <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Some ideas to toss to MF
>zillion IS a number; it's just a large, indeterminate one. *grin*
 
Did I ever tell you I was a mathematician?  Well okay CS major/math minor
(most classes end up overlapping) and can define "real number"?  Okay I have
to conceded that zillions does not have an imaginary component so perhaps
can be seen as a placeholder for a real number - in this case it also has to
be an integer and I'm quite positive no one cares about this detailed a
description of "zillions"... nevermind...
 
>Well, this goes right back to my original point - to see if MF is interested
>in tracking this sort of health problems *in their ferrets*.  Sure, I am
>implying that "just because they're MF ferrets, they have these problems."
>But my main goal is to be helpful, positive and concerned.
 
The difference is you propose "doing something" not just whining and finger
pointing.  Yes there does seem to be some sort of correlation between
adrenal problems and ferrets that happen to have dots in their ears.  Is it
a false correlation based soley on percentage of ferrets that are Marshall
ferrets or real in which case it would be good if we can figure out a way to
determine which ferrets are most at risk so Marshall can then decide on a
course of action that could help alleviate the problem.  Tracking batches of
ferrets over time will give us a way to determine if "all MF" ferrets get
these cancers or just certain ones that can be somehow distinguished.
 
>Unfortunately our observations provide little of scientific value, but they
>DO provide us an incentive and an impetus to approach MF about conducting a
>more formal study.
 
Well put.  We don't deny a anecdotal connection.  Lets see if its real.
 
>been injected by evil scientists with adrenal disease-causing hormones
>before they got to the shelter.
 
Since we firmly believe there is an environmental component as well as some
reasons some ferrets are more vunerable than others it could be the shelter
itself that infects them.  Sounds horrible but it is something we need be
aware of.  The stress of going into s shelter could be a trigger for adrenal
problems.  "Shelter shock" is well recognized by many shelters in this area.
The stress of getting packed into a crowded environment could be hurting
them.  Its perhaps not completely unavoidable since the alternative of
euthanizing strays instead of putting them in shelters is obviously worse.
We do not endorse the ideas of "permanent shelter residents" or
"sponsorship".  We think ferrets are healthier placed in permanent homes.
Okay we strayed there didn't we.
 
>If they're not interested, I'm hopping on the boycott wagon. :)
 
Well we already are there.  We do not financially support MF in any way.  We
always recommend other sources of ferrets.  IF they help us in these efforts
we won't be as strong in our non-recommendations perhaps.  We dislike the
descenting and the early altering (maybe - at least we think its way too
early now but a couple weeks later might not be as bad).  At least the early
altering reduces the numbers of unwanted litters and the cases of aplastic
anemia.
 
>From:    Mustang Charlie <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Marshal Farms, et al
 
Actually you are saying pretty much what I've said though in perhaps a
better way.
 
>[Moderator's note:
 
Actually we're very encouraged that for once the debate isn't just "taste's
great" vs.  "less filling" ... no thats "evil scum" vs.  "not all bad".
Rather we are actually discussing what we can do to figure out what the
story really is.  Well at least some of the debate is anyway.
 
>From:    Rochelle Newman <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: MF ferrets
>If you're at all shocked that all 50 with adrenal disease were MF,
>then I heartily suggest you *don't* take up gambling.
 
And isn't the lottery described as a tax on those who aren't good at math.
Lot's of folks have problems with statistics.
 
bill and diane killian
[Posted in FML issue 1987]