>From:    Anonymous Poster <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: oversized ferrets
>First: I did not say that any vet said PET STORE ferrets were healthier.
>What I did say was that several vets (in the same association), who are my
>animals doctors, said that they felt that very heavy, large ferrets were
>not as healthy as the slimmer ferrets.
 
So.  The truth is that fat ferrets aren't as healthy as slim ferrets NOT
large versus small.  Why are you so blaming of breeders that are doing
nothing wrong?
 
>Second: I did not "bash" anyone.  I said I felt the original body style of
>the domesticated ferret was being lost in the quest for the largest ferrets
>possible.
 
Well you are saying that we breeders are doing something wrong when in fact
we are not.  You just don't know what you are talking about.  You don't.
Really.  We are NOT trying to breed for the biggest fattest ferrets.  A
lot of the size increases come from diet (Yo, Bob C you listening?)
particularly in the first part of life.  Even the early alters great
benefit from a better diet at that stage.  Yes, benefit.
 
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming that you were
confused by the differences between early altered ferrets and normal
ferrets.
 
Now you are willfully stating that breeders are working at losing the
original body style of the ferret.  That's rot.  Normally I oppose the
hybridization of ferrets and polecats however it has given me the
opportunity to see what polecats look like and thus can assure you that
since the polecat is the original body style for the ferret and its darned
hard for the average person to tell polecats from ferrets that what you are
lamenting is fiction.
 
The black footed ferret and the steppe polecat seem to have a somewhat
different shape than that euorpean polecat and ferret.  But I see it most
in their head.  More like the other weasels to my thinking.  The American
mink has a fuller head as well
 
>Third: I did not "lash out" at everybody or at anybody for that matter. I
>am not unsure of my self in any thing I said.  I simply said that it was
>too bad that private breeders were getting away from the body style of the
>domestic ferret ( this is my opinion).
 
Perhaps you should be unsure of what you said.  And perhaps you should
change your opinon.  I could state that in my opnion the moon is made of
green cheese but when presented with evidence to the contrary I maintain
that opinion it would be hard not to think me a crackpot.  If I was to then
spout off at how astronauts that had stepped on the moon were going to
spoil the cheese then I would be lashing out.  And really looking silly in
the process.
 
More to follow...  I like to be thorough.  Try to really undersatand the
situation rather than take one statement and by perhaps not understanding
the whole situation make mistakes that might make others look bad when
they are actually doing good things.
 
- bill
 
[The two posts were combined. BIG]
 
>From:    Anonymous Poster <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: oversized ferrets
>If you look back in the history of the domestic ferret, in the world of
>art, you will see the body style I am speaking of in the paintings.
 
http://web0.tiac.net/users/drbeer/joyce/ferrets/frhistpg.htm
Went to this page to examine the ferrets in the paintings...
 
The first ferret has the ears of a deer and the face of perhaps an goat.
Its nostrils are too large, the planes of the head too flat.  Its legs are
too long and the coloring of a rabbit.  As long as the man's arm.  The
second again has the dark top and whiter belly that might be okay if it
wasn't a solid dark top with a real skunk nose.  Love that upturn in it.
That squirrel tail really tops it off.  The third isn't much to go on.
Look like teeny tiny faces.
 
Da Vinci's...  What the heck is that thing?  Its no ermine for sure.  And
is almost assuredly soppused to be a ferret.  But those muscles!  Looks as
exaggerated as his horses.  Very definitely a Da Vinci animal but not all
that representational as a model of what ferrets actually looked like.
Really check out Da Vinci's horses.  In particular the statue given to
Milan http://www.guild.com/cgi-bin/guild.cgi?tpl=horse_infopg_b2
 
The one with Queen Elizabeth.  Nice spots.  Itsy bitsy cute little thing.
I guess its supposed to be a ferret.  Its not an ermine.  The ferreters
tapestry scan.  If that gives you an idea that our modern ferrets are of
a different body shape than in the past, I give up.  Conrad Gesner's
Historiae Animalium of 1551... Yes we can tell its supposed to be a ferret.
Not a natural pose for a ferret.  The legs are too short and the front and
back are the same.  Not that good a representation.  Wow would you look at
the chest on the last one!  Beefcake!  Looks more like a dogs body.  Well
given the fox color perhaps more of a fox's body.  So which exaggerated
picture did you mean?  They don't look all that much alike to me.
 
>Fourth: As I said in the beginning of this post you answered the question
>of why this was posted as an anonymous post.  What I wrote was not an
>attack or a lashing out and I am certainly not "fighting" in anyway.
 
You are assigning blame to private breeders for doing something they are
not.  What your vet was telling you was not that the breeders are screwing
up the ferrets but that people aren't caring for them too well.  Too much
fat is not genetic.  Not excercised enough is not genetic.
 
If that isn't what they said, then why are your vets so differing in
opinion than all the vets that comments on "how big and healthy" ferrets
like our hobs and others that we know look?
 
>A ferret could be bigger but still not bulkier and maintain the slim body
>style and still not be de-sexed before maturity.
 
Ask doctors, human or veterinary even, how often obesity is related to
genetics compared to other causes.  But as you increase size you have to
increase bulk.  Simple physics of skeletal and muscular needs.
 
If you had instead pointed out that a lot of ferrets even a lot at
private breeders appear fat and that that is most probably unhealthy for
them we'd have readily agreed - even with the part of being at private
breeders.  Heck we've had porkers at times.
 
Since you posted anonymously there is no way we can connect you to any
particular location and understand that perhaps in your area there may
be a breeder or two that do have ferrets with a different look.  But
you didn't say "here in East Pennsylhoma" or anything that would mean
you meant regionally.  You instead stated it in a way that would likely
mean all or most breeders.  Since our ferrets do tend to be larger than
most and that is not infrequently stated here you should be able to
discern why we might take offense.  We would love to hear your vets'
reactions to meeting Professor Xavier who maybe among the best ferrets
we've ever bred.  He is stout but not fat whatsoever.  At I guess he's
about five he has the body that most year old hobs should have.  We thank
Ellen Byrne for the remarkable care she has taken of this boy. He's not
that thin 'whippet' look.  But boy is he healthy!
 
This is one area we aren't sure we agree with BIG's decisions on what is
or isn't flames.  He is more allowing of class condemnations or 'nameless'
flames even when the target is easily identifiable.  Even corporate
identities deserve the same level of protection as any other identity.  In
particular anonymous condemnations of individuals, classes or corporate
identities are a particularly dangerous thing.
 
Anonymous posts from FFZs are fine.  Anonymous 'confessions' where someone
wants to point out their own errors but not in a traceable way are fine.
But hiding behind a wall and throwing stones is cowardly.
 
bill
zen and the art of ferrets
http://www.zenferret.com
mailto:[log in to unmask]
[Posted in FML issue 2805]