>From:    colburns <[log in to unmask]>
>This site has a very nice, clearly written explanation of vaccination
>failures in general, as well as vaccination failure due to the
>lingering presence of maternal antibodies in the young offspring of
>vaccinated mothers. For that section in particular, please scroll
>down the page to reason number five, "Interference due to Maternal
>Antibodies." It explains why a vaccination series, rather than a single
>vaccination is often recommended for the young offspring ofa vaccinated
>mother.
>
> http://www.sniksnak.com/doghealth/vac-failures.html

I realized with this reply that I did not adequately explain yesterday,
my apologies.

With an older ferret of unknown vaccination history a 'series' of
vaccinations is not necessary, only one would be needed. I have seen it
advised to give TWO distemper vaccinations, that is harmful and also
could make the ferret more susceptible to the disease. Of course no
vaccinations should be given if the animal is in ill health even in the
history is not known. Wait until the animal is healthy, then vaccinate
if it is felt necessary.

That site posted above shows why ONE vaccine given after maternal
antibodies have waned is sufficient. I don't think most people are
going to stop doing the series with kits and just give one, but they
should be aware of that option.

Sukie wrote:
>Might it be possible that once the original series is past that
>vaccines may be able to be given less often? Certainly. Do we know
>yet how to do that safely? Nope.

There are enough studies with people, cats and dogs that show that
annual vaccination is not necessary and is harmful. People can choose
to wait for an actual ferret study if they want to, but others may
choose to go with current information on duration of immunity in
mammals and go with less boosters. Yes, distemper and rabies are
horrible diseases, but so are adrenal, lymphoma, insulnomia, etc.
that are 'normal' in ferrets. Your ferret, vaccinated or not, has the
greater chance of getting one of the second group of diseases than of
the first. You are swapping a "what if" for a "surely will". I
personally chose to go with taking a chance on that my ferrets will not
get distemper and certainly would not get rabies, and they lived to 9
years before disease hit. I find it appalling that people will use the
excuse "it is not a ferret study" and keep vaccinating year after year,
then wonder why ferrets are considering disease prone animals? But I
am happy when I read that people are opening their eyes and trying to
make better decisions. Yes, other factors besides vaccinations do play
a part, but to ignore one that is staring us right in the face is a
disservice to our animals. The major veterinary organizations have
recognized that overvaccinating (and even that one vaccination can be
harmful), yet it is a continued practice that is done despite being
known as harmful. So maybe we don't know conclusively what is safe,
but we DO KNOW WHAT IS HARMFUL. :)

We can't forget flea/tick products and also heartworm meds that seem to
be the norm in recent years either. I wonder how many people started
using one or both of these "precautions" because they heard it was now
being done by some people? Those are some chemicals and poisons that
were not common years ago. There may be some areas where those
chemicals and poisons have more of a justification to be used, but I
shudder to think they are now being given without a second thought. I
think any product that warns about how harmful it is to humans and not
to get it on you, should be a warning sign that putting it on/in our
pets month after month might cause some health problems for the animal.

a few links on some of these products:

http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/pets/pets.pdf
http://www.apnm.org/publications/resources/fleachemfin.pdf

Now titers: a low titer does not mean the animal is unprotected, it
could be that the animal has not recently been challenged by the
disease. I agree that a titer is not the most accurate way, but it can
show if a vaccination has "taken" if a titer is done a few weeks after
vaccinating. This may be a peace of mind for those that wish to not
vaccinate again, or to space them out farther.

asked what is different from raising animals years ago than now, I was
referring to all pets. In dogs and cats both chronic and acute diseases
and conditions have risen and are starting to be considered "normal".
The health care that most animals were given years ago would probably
be considered neglectful by some now. Not uptodate on vaccines? No
flea/tick applications? No heartworm preventative? Fed actual food that
was not scientifically balanced? Yet most animals were much healthier
and had a better quality of life without chronic problems like skin
conditions and allergies. Cancer will hit one in 4 dogs now? Hmmmm....

We have severely compromised the quality of life for our pets with the
overuse of these "advancements" in care for our pets. We pre-treat a
majority of stuff as a precaution and sometimes that is worse than
what is being protected from. Symptoms are treated, and not underlying
causes. Like I said, the quality of life for pets these days is not
always a healthy life. And it is considered "normal". I don't accept
that. And the sooner more people start not accepting that either, the
better off our pets will be.

I obviously can't say conclusively why my 2 ferrets lived and are
living past 9 years of age before disease hit them, but I do believe it
had a lot to do with me not vaccinating them and using any chemicals or
poisons on them. I gave their bodies the opportunity to do their jobs
and didn't suppress them and then have to help them with chemicals and
poisons, and medications, etc. and call that a good quality of life. I
chose that to continue to vaccinate them would almost certainly give
them a disease at one point, whereas getting distemper or rabies was
the lesser chance. Same with fleas and heartworms, never had fleas and
would of done something if and when they did, and decided heartworm was
a very very very slim possibility. People need to stop using "scare"
as their reasoning and put things into perspective and decide, with
informed reasoning, when some benefits DO NOT outweigh the risks.

  ~Amy~

[A later P.S.:]
Also- Generation Damage

I forgot to mention chronic damage passed down to offspring. This plays
a part in the health of our pets (and in people too). Parents that have
been bombarded with vaccines, chemicals, poor food, etc can pass that
poor health quality to their offspring, and then their offspring, etc
etc. I wonder with more and more vaccines being added to the childhood
requirements for children, what future generations will look like
health wise? I believe we are already seeing the affects and it will
get worse, and having a medication for everything under the sun,
doesn't help either, along with the poor diets, lack of exercise etc.
It seems like we treat ourselves health wise, the same way we treat
our pets! :D

   ~Amy~

[Posted in FML 5704]