>From:    Vickie McKimmey <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: the ringing endorsement
 
>TPP had to cut back on the number of ferrets they could care for due to
>health issues.  That, I'm sure was not an easy decision.  The Coles
>stepped up to help Charley out.  A commendable feat indeed.
 
Now this is just exactly what is encouraging back yard breeders!  The "Oh
no - what am I to do?  I have SO many ferrets" whine.  Then some poor
sucker feels sorry for them and BUYS the ferrets and the breeders goes
"Yes - now I can breed MORE because I will always find a buyer!"
 
>but the Coles intend on spaying and neutering those who need to be, and I
>am sure many were retired breeders to start with.
 
Don't count the chickens before they hatch . . .
 
>If you have the opportunity, get to know the Coles.  They are some of the
>nicest people out on the show circuit today.
 
Have tried that and have gotten no response - and yes, the e-mail was
friendly.  BTW - the "show circut" is just a small portion of the Ferret
Community and some of the nastiest, sneakiest, and two-faced people are
found on the show circut.  They just know how to cover up well in public.
 
>From:    Andy Coghill <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Ringing endorsement
>I certainly hope their ethical standards are high enough to refuse to
>endorse a breeder which does not have the best interest of its ferrets in
>mind.
 
Me too!
 
>From:    Carla Almaraz <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: AFA, ferret breeding, & religion
>Religion has absolutely no place in the discussion about providing proper
>care for ferrets.
 
Well said.
 
>From:    William Killian <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: zen on that breeder controversy in Tennessee
>Tangerine albinos are nothing new but merely discolored.  These have been
>debated and dismissed since the days of FURO.
 
Yep.  I remember reading about this in FURO's magizine that they used to
put out.
 
>Please write to us off list.  We would very much like to talk to you
>about this.
 
I think that this is something that would benefit all clubs that put on
shows, thus a good topic for the list to talk about - if interested.
 
>From:    Troy Lynn Eckart <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Tennessee Ferret Farm Kit and Caboodle
>How many shelter operators have thought they had wonderful homes only to
>find that they weren't as good as they presented?
 
And she hits that anil on the head.  Just because a person says the are
one thing or do one thing doesn't mean it is true.  You need to *see*
proof.  And sometimes that isn't enough.
 
>From:    Sukie Crandall <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: some oranges and yellows; the new breeders
>I have been informed by two separate source that they personally have
>encountered rib cage malformations in these ferrets.
 
I just don't know how this can be an ok thing to have being reproduced.
Even if they are ferrets from a different source - a deformaty SHOULD NOT
be produced.  Don't ferrets have enough health problems?
 
>One more thing: I think that show judges in the shows by any group should
>be able to disqualify ferrets which show malformations or known genetic
>problems except from the handicapped categories.  That would even extend
>to having ALL disqualified and if such things existed.  IT WOULD PROMOTE
>IMPROVED HEALTH IN FERRETS!
 
Judges are supposed to do this - or at least subtract points.
 
>From:    "Regina J. Hart" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Disqualifying genetic problems
>The only "genetic problem" ferrets that are permitted in show rings are
>those ferrets displaying a Waardenburg pattern.  In my opinion, it is time
>that we consider whether these patterns should be encouraged, but that's
>only my opinion.
 
Oh yes!  I agree with this one as well!  WS is a MAJOR problem in my book.
 
>From:    "Regina J. Hart" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Show entry limits
>Everyone recognizes that shows tend to run very long.  Would limiting
>entry numbers help to correct this problem?  Would new show goers or those
>with fewer ferrets feel that they have a better chance of competing if the
>odds were more even?  Would the "big time exhibitors" be upset with this
>sort of restriction?  What's the best way to keep everyone happy?  Can
>shows still make their money if entries are restricted in this fashion?
 
I think it would be a great idea!  It would be much less stressful for the
judges (nobody likes judging for 12 hours straight) and more fun for the
exhibitors.  There could be more time for other things - like care
seminars, etc.
 
>From:    Carla Almaraz <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TPP
>The product I saw was made especially for growing thick fur on mink.  It
>was named something like Fur-gro.  The shelter that purchased Charlie's
>culls and rescues tried the food so that the shelter ferrets would have
>good fur too.  The ferrets *hated* it and it was fish based to boot.
 
Ah yes.  This is a mink food made in WI called National Mink food.  Doug
McKay (as well as many other large breeders) use this.  I have seen it and
smelled and have seen ferrets reared on it many times.  However - they were
not yellowed.
 
>I saw the post about the various locations where the other 700 or so
>breeding animals went.  Do any of those people know about the concerns
>voiced here?
 
Doubt it!
 
>From:    Anonymous Poster <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Last words on TPP
>Second, I think the bigger concern, again, is not with the Coles, but with
>the breeding stock they selected.  UI ferrets DO have structural problems.
>TPP ferrets DO have structural problems.  Not all of them, of course, but
>enough that any breeder purchasing or using that stock should be extra
>vigilant about the kits produced.
 
Exactly.  Ferrets with such problems SHOULD NOT be bred.  Period.  No
matter where they are from.  The sooner breeders learn this the better.
Breeders are too afraid to admit they may have a problem with their stock.
It takes a big person to admit it and I would think higher of a person
that would admit a problem and do everything in their power to correct it.
 
>Fourth, various people have expressed valid concerns as to whether or not
>the Coles are ready, prepared, knowledgeable enough, or have a plan for
>their breeding.  The comments by Vickie today go a long way to easing my
>mind.
 
Are you sure we are not sharing a brain?  You just can't jump into breeding
that many animals!
 
>My only concern, and this is based on ferret health, longevity, and
>structure, is that they may breed more pandas, blazes or other ferrets
>with WS, and pass that on.  Breeders should be trying to eliminate it from
>all their lines.  It's a genetic defect that should be stopped - like hip
>dysplasia in dogs.  We, as a ferret breeding community, should learn from
>the mistakes made in other species and not repeat them.
 
Yup.  Just ask any shelter parent and they will tell you stories of
"biters" that only have bitten because they were abused from lack of
knowledge that they were deaf!  This is DANGEROUS!
 
>I think it would force the breeders to really understand their ferrets,
>and only enter the "best of the best".
 
That is right.  The best of the best is what you should be breeding, too.
Breeders, the best of the best is NOT everything you have, either!  It
isn't possible.
 
>From:    bill and diane killian <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: zen on TPP's diet; why not negative on the Coles; DQ of deformed
>         ferrets at shows
>We do not have it handy but Charlie sold "information" including the
>recipe for her "food".  The specifics elude us now but we noted the
>imbalanced diet in her recipe.  The structure of the ferrets we saw
>matched the diet.  All coat with no muscluature and apparently weak bones.
>All of our information that we are passing along is first hand.
 
Hmm ... so was that a food she made herself?  Or one produced by a
manufacture?  And muscle tone can be from sitting in a cage with no
"time out".
 
>From:    Debi & David Christy <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: The Cole Issue
>Why don't all of you who have so much concern for conditions at the Cole's
>just get a phone number, make an appointment and get the truth from the
>source instead of elaborating on someone else's "he/she said"?
 
Considering that they are "away" - as in not in the state they reside in -
that is a bit difficult.  I have tried sending them a nice e-mail, but have
still gotten no reply.
 
>From:    Pat Stauffer <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: breeding/shelters/unusual colors
>Rare or unusual looking animals, they just have to have them at any cost.
 
And this is exactly the problem with WS.
 
>Being rich, and/or having hired help just gives a better advantage, and
>even that depends on the kind of help you hire.  It doesn't guarantee
>anything.
 
Very true.  I remember seeing videos of babysitters hired to care for human
children that beat the crap out of them.  Who says that hired help will not
do that?  What happens when a kit nips?  Will the employee hit them in a
rage?
 
>From:    Tanya Grave <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: STOP IT ALREADY!
>We all have our own opinions of what's considered a
>*beautiful/gorgeous/perfect* ferret.  But to me the
>*beautiful/gorgeous/perfect* ferret is the one that
>is healthy, happy, and well cared for.
 
We sure do.  And most breeders agree with your statements above!
 
>From:    Dee Eisenman <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Religion no-no, AFA judging standards
>I must say that the anonymous person who posted this, appears to feel
>threatened that their ferrets cannot compete with the Cole's ferrets.
 
Not the case at all.  I have not attended many shows, nor have I competed
against the Coles.
 
>If you are making these statements, you are in essence saying that the
>AFA has unfair judging standards.
 
I couldn't claim this as I have never attended an AFA show.
 
>Since this has not happened to you, why even speculate that it will?
 
Because it probably will happen to somebody.  Somebody will feel this way.
And from other posts it seems that others feel the same.
 
Confused and Concerned Ferret Lover
[Posted in FML issue 3214]