[Moderator's note: If you have replies, now's your chance. I'll be asking
for no more posts on the topic if things get repetitive or ugly. BIG]
>From: Howard Davis <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Further on vaccine survey
>The specific figures are as follows:
>Fervac-D: 868 vaccinated, 31 major reactions reported. Incidence of 3.57%.
>Fromm-D: 483 vaccinated, 2 major reactions reported. Incidence of 0.41%.
>Galaxy-D: 476 vaccinated, 2 major reactions reported. Incidence of 0.42%.
I'm afraid I have to mention a major problem with these figures. I
personally submitted some 2300 vaccinations to Pam Grant. Some 300
innoculations of my own and some 2000 from a Doug McKay. This approximately
2000 shots represents a single years worth from Mr. McKay's ranch. I could
easily have submitted thousands more by going back another year or more. In
all of the vaccinations done either by myself or Mr. McKay or his daughter
there were absolutely no reactions. If this submitted data had been
included the rate accepting the rest of you information would cut by more
than a third the reaction rate. If data had been received from any of the
other local breeders the rate would have dropped even further. I'm sure
with very little effort I could amass information on over 10000 vaccinations
with Fervac and probably several thousand more with FROMM-D. This would
take me no more than a week.
>We treated stinging, itching, squealing or unusual lethargy as "minor
>reactions". I am aware that Roger Brady, the main spokesman for United
>Vaccines, denies those symptoms the status of "reactions." So what are
>they--chopped liver?
Skipping the snide remark. I did not refer to comments made by Roger Brady.
I've never talked to the man. I was refering to our own Dr. Williams. I
left his name out as he does not like to be brought into political
squabbles. Dr. Williams, I am sorry to bring your name in.
>People whose ferrets screamed in pain when the vaccine was injected have
>reported those reactions. If my ferret screamed in pain, I would report
>that myself.
I have two Pomeranians (dogs that is)who scream in pain at every injection.
Of course this is even before I touch them with the needle so I discount
this.
>Despite Brady's semantic acrobatics, United took enough of a pasting with
>the ferret-owning public about it that they twice altered the product to
>try to eliminate it.
Again noting the loaded language. I do not see it as a fault if the company
tries to be responsive to consumers. Most believe the change in diluents
has improved things. Note this is not the vaccine but the liquid which
carries it.
>Perhaps United Still has a public acceptance problem.
Fervac only seems to have an acceptance problem in small circles. It is
accepted by all ferret organizations - even if LIFE discourages the use it
is recognized for entry into shows I believe. Most ferret organizations
encourage its use for the same reason I do.
>Perhaps that's why Brady refused to estimate what percentage of
>ferret owners are using his product.
Knowing the history of the relationship between Acme/STAR* and United it
is more amazing that Mr. Brady talks at all. Since absolutely no-one
knows how many ferrets there are in the country, no records of what
vaccines are used in what animals, no accounting of how many ferrets get
vaccinated it is more likely that Mr. Brady chose not to speculate.
>Taking only the most extreme life-threatening reactions, the scores are
>less divergent: Fervac 5, Fromm 2, and Galaxy 2 (incidence percentages of
>0.5%, 0.4%, and 0.4%), and not statistically significant . But the
>difference on vomiting, diarrhea and bloody stool (26 vs 0 vs 0) is so
>obvious that even a trained mathematician should grasp it.
Another un-necessary slight. A trained mathmatician could not "grasp it"
since the information given earlier was so incomplete. This 26 had never
been mentioned. But a trained mathmatician and scientist such as myself
notes that this survey was not a controlled sampling. No effort was made
to reach members of the AFA, NAFA, or FURO. No effort was made to
differentiate between circumstances of innoculation. No effort was made to
seperate older ferrets from younger ferrets. No effort was made to account
for any factors that would make a difference. I can not accept this data
as valid.
>There have been more than a few reports of ferrets contracting distemper
>after being vaccinated with Fervac-D, etiology as yet unknown. Brady
>himself told the Independent Voice only that "we don't have any FIRM
>EVIDENCE [emphasis mine] that ferrets properly vaccinated with Fervac-D
>have contracted distemper." Some defense.
Another snice remark. I differ in my definition of "more than a few". I've
only heard about a few ferrets contracting distemper with or without
vaccination. Unless you know about cases that have not been mentioned in
the normal ferret resources. The only ferrets I know of that had proper
vaccination history that contracted distemper were exposed to a "hot dose".
If one reads the insert that comes in all vaccines you will note that they
all say "aids in prevention". None guarantee prevention in the face of
overwhelming infection. None could.
>The AFA-sponsored American Ferret Report, in an article in its Jan-Feb
>issue on an outbreak of 16 ferrets that came down with canine distemper
>in South Carolina noted that "all of the infected ferrets were apparently
>up to date on vaccinations with the currently licensed product, Fervac-D."
I read your account on the web. It is mistaken. I am more aware of the
circumstances than you or the AFA. We are very good friends of the the
people who were mentioned. These ferrets were in our room at the hotel and
our in theirs. Our ferrets were properly vaccinated with Fervac-D and none
contracted distemper. The first ferret infected was NOT properly
vaccinated. It was too young to have received the full treatment. It would
be better if ferrets under 16 weeks were not allowed into show halls to
prevent a repeat of this case. If the owners had followed the advice of
veterinarians at this point there would have only been three or four deaths.
The ferrets that received the treatment were cured despite your comment to
the contrary on your web site. I am only aware of one of the treated
ferrets having died due to side effects of distemper. I'd rather preserve
some privacy for these unfortunate folks, but I will correct any other false
assumptions you have.
>In an editorial note at the end, this editor's note was appended: "AT
>THIS POINT IN TIME [emphasis mine], the American Ferret Association
>continues to recommend the routine vaccination of all ferrets with
>Fervac-D." Do I detect wiggle-room, or what?
This is not a statement for a medical discussion. Perhaps it reveals more
about the true motives of this issue.
bill and diane killian
zen and the art of ferrets
http://userwww.qnet.com/~killian/zen_home.htm
[Posted in FML issue 1541]
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