I have to tell you, as great as Jeff's and other reply posts have been
warning people to keep calm, and as correct as their information is
that they have provided us, I am agitated about the ongoing "bandwagon"
comments going on here and elsewhere. I find the tone of these,
defensive and not very inviting for discussion. I've yet to see any
irrational comments, emotional outcries, vague negative statements, or
absurd jumping to conclusions on any ones part here in this open forum
or in private to have inspired them. So I dont feel the need for people
to put such focus in posts about a bandwagon that does not exist rather
than spending valuable time on gathering and exchanging information.

There has been some buzz about possible reactions to these implants
for a while. People honestly were intimidated in coming forward with
their information and share it because they've been greeted not with
unemotional discussion and support but with, "What? Des Implants?
Nooo. Nope. Can't happen." yada yada yada. End of discussion. People
dont want to be baraged with a page of scientific this can't and that
can't happen because of xyz. They need people to acknowledge the loss,
listen. Then after that, a reserved sharing of experience and knowledge
is needed. Science is for back up and referal to what you say. But the
"knowledgable" need to also be willing to value that persons experience
just as much as their "facts". If someone came forward and said, "hey,
dont get a des implant. It killed my ferret!", then fine. A blunt,
inflamatory, emotional statement needs that fire squashed. But nobody
I know has acted this way.

Now we have Ardith, a ferret (and other exotic) rescuer of a great,
great many years coming forward. Because of these passively combative
attitudes so many of us have seen, she was very stressed about coming
forward. But she bravely did so anyway, just in case ... there truly
is a problem here. I've known Ardith online and via phone for a decade.
She is a warm, sweet person. But she also has an intellectual side
to go with that wonderful personality and vast knowledge of ferrets.
Bottom line? When she speaks, quite frankly I listen. Because normally,
"she" is the one listening and thinking. That is reflected by a lack
of verbose and emotional posts over the years in this forum. She never
speaks unless she is sure about something. Notice she suffered a
horrific loss on her part but has not focused on that at all, but
rather on the facts she has at hand. I lost a ferret to bleeding out
(and in). Scott and I can't get the vivid memory of blood spurting
out of every orifice out of our minds. Yet she has kept stoically
calm throughout this. She has put aside her grief to help ferrets. She
came here and stated a few dry facts not because she believes the Des
implants are the devil, but because of this simple fact: something
happens once: coincidence. Something happens twice: a definite "hmm
moment". Three times? Yeah, that doesn't need to be ignored folks. It
needs examination.

Remember, this about her case:
-they occurred within a time period of each other
-they were three diff ferret individuals
-three diff homes, environments and owners
-two of which had identical symptoms, another related symptoms (if
 I recall that right)
-she noticed ... a new lot and implant needle

She was wanting us to discuss any other "possible" reactions immediate
or not, the lot numbers, if its the old needles or new implant kit,
any possible new origins, any possible new formulas, any possible
mishandling and transport. She was worried there is an immediate issue
to be aware of. And thats all. It was simple!!!

Even if there is good explanations or even if we never figure it out
one way or another ......... any possible reactions would be best
discussed. The studies, as I understand, have been outstanding.
However, there is a big difference between a pool of subjects for
studies, and a product being used among the masses in the real world
being exposed to other factors. We can't count how many times a drug
has been studied for years, approved, and then later found to be
harmful to specific individuals or situations. I don't care if in the
end, there is only a 1 in a million chance of some sort of reaction.
We, and our ferrets, all deserve to know if anything like that exists
so we can make our own informed choices that we are comfortable with.

It was a simple post. Simple request. Has anyone seen any sort of
reaction to a des implant. What was it? What were the circumstances.
What lot/implant kit was it? How many of yours used one succesfully
without issue? Am I missing something simple that would cause bleeding
related to implantation that would explain this?

Thats all. No need for soap box lectures, emotional opinions if these
implants are "good or bad". I for one quite frankly dont care what any
one thinks/believes about them. I certainly dont want to hear a lecture
about being careful to not act immaturely and impulsively when I've yet
to show a sign of it. I'm just interested in concise experiences. And
in this case specifically, any ideas as to why a bleeding would occur
in DIFF homes.

Wolfy

[Posted in FML 7415]