>From:    [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Obvious Confusion and California INFO CFL Website
 
You're serious?  I guess so.  Hoping that since this will end the discussion
BIG allows its divergance from ferrets...
 
>The animals mentioned by Killian, mink, skunks and turkeys, are wild
>animals, native to this country (U.S.), but wild.
 
The informal "Killian" normally used in goofy mail about us.  Been listening
to those folks far too long.
 
Time to research the word domesticated.  Is a sheep (mentioned in your first
post) domesticated?  If so then a ranch mink is domesticated.  Domesticated
refers to an animal modified from its wild version to suit the needs of man.
see 3 below in particular.  "Adapted" for use of man.
 
From the web...
 
|Hypertext Webster Interface
|Webster Definition for "domesticate"
|do.mes.ti.cate \d*-'mes-ti-.ka-t\ \-.mes-ti-'ka--sh*n\ vt 1: to bring
|into domestic use : ADOPT 2: to fit for domestic life 3: to adapt to life
|in intimate association with and to the advantage of man 4: to bring to
|the level of ordinary people - do.mes.ti.ca.tion n
 
>Mink may be bred in captivity and even tamed, but they are not domesticated.
 
Never saw a white mink with black spots in the wild.  Domestic ranch mink
are not adapted for keeping in the house but then neither are domestic goats
or sheep which you mentioned.
 
>The same is true of skunks.
Maybe.  We've seen domestic skunks.  We've seen wild skunks.  Not the same.
A biologist told me the number of generations normally used in determining
domestic or not and it was something under a dozen.  Skunks are running on
well over fifty.  But it is still disputed more on legal than biological
issues.
 
>Please send along whatever data or reference you have that says that the
>commercially bred turkeys are a domesticated form of turkey that
>originated, not in Europe or Asia, but from our native wild turkey.
 
Here's one...
 
http://www.infi.net/~dgs.assc/food/food_def.html
|TURKEY
|[16th C] The term turkey was originally applied to the 'guinea fowl,'
|apparently because the bird was imported into Europe from Africa by the
|Portuguese through Turkish territory. When the American bird we now know
|as the ~turkey was introduced to the British in the mid 16th Century, it
|seemed to have reminded them of the guinea fowl, for they transferred the
|guinea fowl's name ~turkey to it.
 
Never saw a wild turkey that had its chest so large it could barely walk.
These are domesticated animals.  Guinea fowl look different than turkeys but
more like our turkey than the chicken.  Oh I grew up in the Shenadoah Valley
which is home to more Turkeys than anywhere outside of the whole state of
North Carolina.  Took classes in the Wampler building (check your holiday
turkey as Longacre-Wampler is number two in the country in turkey
production.  Used to pick the feathers out of my yard while at JMU.  Seen a
bunch.  Really cool bronze turkey statue on Rte.  11 South of Harrisonburg.
 
>Again, I may be missing Killian's point, but clarity is as important as
>accuracy.
 
Agreed.  You stated that all domesticated animals were from Europe or Asia
and we pointed out species that were from the new world.  We did not state
that they were all from the US but rather pointed out the regions of origin.
So we'll drop the South American species.  Check the sites listed in my
other post for more on them.  We'll not bother with African either.
 
>Send along the data or reference, page number and quote.
 
We've sent web sites.  We're not going to the library for this silly issue.
We're done.
 
Well on to ferrets now that we've brought up the domesticated thing.
Polecats do not normally hunt by jumping in to a rabbit warren and trapping
the rabbits in nets.  This is a use of the ferret as a polecat adapted for
use by man.  Polecats are also by nature solitary beasts.  Ferrets are
social.  Man selectively bred (meaning domesticated) polecats to bring out
these traits and drop the wild tendancies.  We informally studied polecats
(both eversmanni and putorius) enough to "think" we see differences in the
head.  Well actually the eversmanni looks quite a bit more like the nigripes
than the furo or putorius.
 
The ferrets with fancy colors are also a human based adaption.  We wanted
pretty animals so we bred for colors and patterns.  Polecats do chose there
mates over unusual colors.
 
bill and diane killian
zen and the art of ferrets
http://www.zenferret.com/
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[Posted in FML issue 1844]