>From:    Sheila Crompton <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Sheila replies to Zen
>I never said anything about breeding from unhealthy stock or breeding from
>stock which was genetically unsound - I said "Show standards and colour
>breeding can take a back seat" I stand by that.......... health and
>temperament come first.  I show my ferrets I win prizes with 'em they are
>all strays.  You get I'm saying...
 
We are probably not really on opposite sides but just seem it.  Health and
temperament ARE show standards.  For example on the AFA judging sheet we
use a 100 point system.  5 of those 100 points are for color.  Health is
not a single category but is a prime motive of well over half of the
points.  Temperement is a seperate category and is 25 or 30 of the 100
points.  A pretty but not so healthy ferret will not win.  A healthy and
well behaved ferret with some odd coloration or patterns can very easily
win.  Shelter ferrets win a large percentage of the time in the altered
classes, since they are almost always altered they don't show in the
breeder classes.
 
>Breeding for size?  A ferret, is a ferret, is a ferret - what the heck
>has size got to do with it.
 
Like with humans or any animal when you get too far out of the natural
size you induce structural problems.  People that are even taller than
basketball players often have other problems.  The human structure wasn't
meant to support that size.  Same with folks that are too small.  And if
the size is due to obesity or malnutrition I think you can easily agree
that that is a health issue.  I'm talking mostly about ferrets that the
hobs are barely a pound even whole not the fairly broad healthy range of
say 3 to over 6 pounds.
 
>If it's too big for going down a rabbit hole we can always use 'em for
>bolting foxes:-)
 
Now if we did hunting with ferrets much in the US... <g>  But I've often
read about using jills and hobs differently in the past.  The older hunting
journals in the US that did talk about sporting use of ferrets split the
uses of buck and doe (they used different terminology in the US in the
past) for different quarry.
 
>I have no desire to see ferrets go the way of some show dogs, the breathing
>problems of the bulldog, bad hips in Labradors, snappy golden English
>cocker spaniels.  PRA in some breeds.
 
Now this is why the size of the ferret is important.  The AFA in particular
stresses that it opposes the establishment of 'ferret breeds' for this very
reason.  There are folks in the US that are trying to establish quirky
things like miniature ferrets but the AFA (and I think the others) is
specifially trying to combat that.  The so called 'bulldog' ferrets are
one place where a proper standard should work to prohibit organizational
support for the shortening noses.
 
>Yes, if a ferret bites a judge in the UK it's disqualified.
 
Same here.  Some leeway is given by fair judges.  Especially with kits.
But a bite as opposed to a nip will disqualify.  A nip will probably end
the ferrets chances of winning even if it doesn't outright disqualify them.
 
>What about the ferrets that don't meet the breeders standards?  Just a
>bit too big or too small do they get put down?
 
The organizations discourage that.  Neuter and place as pets is the real
approach that vast majority of ferret breeders take.  Once neutered the
genes don't pass so its no harm.  With the US organizations specifically
having altered classes that place even more emphasis on the temperament and
care of the ferret even these ferrets have a chance when judged primarily
as pets.
 
>I don't sell any stock at shows, it's very bad practice as far as I'm
>concerned.  Folk attending shows don't come prepared to purchase ferrets.
 
I see quite a bit of gray here.  I want to agree but am forced to disagree
anyway.  Some people come to shows with that express purpose in mind here.
 
The geography differences between the US and the UK might make some
difference here.  Some people in the US travel hours or even days to get to
shows.  Some equivalently farther than all the way from Scotland to Devon.
There are not shelters and breeders an esasy travel for large portions of
the US so not placing at shows can be problematic for them.  They would be
forced to buy ferrets from pet stores or not have them.  There are shows
that do not allow placement of kits or shelter ferrets or both here as well.
 
There are also different types of shows.  Full championship shows are
different than say ferrets showing up at 4H shows or county fairs.  The
former is much different than the latter.  An impulse buyer is also quite a
bit different than someone who has been in contact with breeders or
shelters before the show and is prepared ahead of time.  Different shades
there.
 
>I just hate the idea of a show standard - you understand?  NO show
>standard.
 
If there is no standard than what the heck is the point?  Quite seriously.
A standard elevates it away from just a beauty contest.  If a judge has
something to base his decisions on its much fairer than having judges that
pick based on some unknown arbitrary bias.
 
>I wouldn't say that some UK breeders are allies of the rescues - to us
>they are a pain in the neck.
 
There are different classes of folks that mate ferrets and produce
offspring.  In all pets there is the nebulous term 'reputable breeder' that
is not a well defined thing.  I was thinking about 'reputable breeders'
when I said that.  We have what we call 'backyard breeders' over here that
resemble closely the equivalent in dogs and cats.  I didn't really mean
them.  I admit I wasn't clear.  Sorry...
 
My primary point is probably more attune to your desires.  A show standard
should be written specifically to ehance the breeding of ferrets with
health and disposition as breeding goals in show ferrets as well as 'just
pets'.  I'll leave the hunting aspects to you folks on that side of the
pond.  <g>
 
If the standard being developed in the UK was primarily on what constitutes
a healthy and well behaved ferret instead of what a color or pattern is
called what would you feel the same?
[Posted in FML issue 2604]