>From:    Sheila Crompton <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Sheila continues the discussion with Zen
>The NFWS gives up to a maximum of 10 or maybe 5 for each point used to
>judge a ferret.  So it ends up out of 100 or 50
 
The LIFE and old independant scoring systems use a highly specific rating
system where every single item is broken down.  I personally hate using
those systems to judge.  They over emphasize trivial things and under
emphasize important things by being to specific.  Its also why the scores
end up too hig and too close together.  The AFA approach gives the judge
a the same number of things to look for but more leeway in how to assign
points.  Relatively trivial things like color are 5 total points instead of
some number of points for each specific aspect of that color.  This allows
the AFA to put about a third of all points to disposition/temperament.
When that category has ranges larger than the total allowed for color it
makes that category much more important for which ferrets place.
 
>My Kurt and Phoenix don't have black noses but they have both been
>winners in polecat classes, in the USA they wouldn't even be considered.
 
Why do you say that?  With the color of the nose amounting to perhaps 1% of
the total score - noses are not that important.  And sables (polecat color)
isn't always supposed to have a black nose.  Our specialty is point pattern
which are supposed to have a lighter colored nose.  The nose should match
the rest of the coloration.  A light torso ferret with darker legs will
probably have a lighter nose than a dark bodied and dark legged ferret.
Pink nosed sables can definitely be "champions".  I can show you some.
 
>Why the hell should they be barred from taking part in a show because
>their noses ain't black!
 
There is a difference also between standard and scoring.  We've both been
bouncing back and forth between them though.  The standard can say that a
particular color/pattern should have a dark or light nose.  The scoring
system decides how important that is.  It shouldn't be a disqualifier.
 
>6 lbs that'd not a ferret, that's a flaming donkey <g>.  My big boys 4.5
>lbs are considered too large for the taste of most British judges
 
Hmm...  so our English hob that weighs about 6 pounds wouldn't be so
popular over there.  (I'm talking about Neville for those that have met
him)  Guess you folks would really freak over my Swedes or Elvis.
 
>One reason a lot of ferreters use jills - I like using my hob Kurt, he
>weighs in at around 2 lbs.
 
Matches what I'd read of the US past ferret history.  The boys were used
to go after larger more aggressive quarry like badgers
 
>I take it that some folk in the US are trying to breed the so called hob
>head in jills?  Tell you what keep the ferrets and put the breeders down!
 
Boys should be boys.  Girls should be girls.  Some times the girls end up
with a more masculine head.  That should be penalized in a show
situation... But culling a few of the breeders... Good idea...
 
>If I was judging a kit class I would expect to get nipped occasionally -
>but if the little begger hangs on it would be disqualified, that's if it
>broke the skin.  I know it's a different kettle of fish over there with
>the rabies and all that........
 
Actually it sounds about the same.  Ferrets are not a real threat for
rabies.  Skunks are.  Raccoons are.  Dogs and cats can be.  Ferrets aren't.
 
>The ideal solution but we do have too many folk breeding too many kits.
 
You have a LOT more breeders than we do.  The directions we need to go in
the two countries differ greatly.  We have to figure out how to handle a
relatively small number of large ranches.  Perhaps by encouraging
responsible hobby breeders.
 
>BTW entire and neutered ferrets all go in the same class in the UK. Until
>you shake a hob (just kidding) it's difficult to know if its lost a couple
>of bits.
 
You don't have the early alters.  Trust me you could tell.  But then if
our ferrets are that much larger (despite rumors on this side that English
ferrets are larger than American) it might be different.  Hmm...  Could
there be some problems with these larger boys?  Dunno...
 
>I prefer the smaller shows myself - around three to four hundred ferrets
>is just about a nice size.
 
That is LOT of ferrets!  Big shows here are some 200 entries.
 
>Right on Bill... Health and temperament... That's what it's all about,
>haven't I been saying that all along <g> I don't go for the so called
>'designer' ferret.
 
We do breed for color but ONLY AFTER everything else is right.  If there
are significant flaws in a ferret it shouldn't be bred no matter what its
color is.  Nothing wrong with paying attention to details if the base is
solid.  If the base isn't solid - the details aren't going to much.
 
Quite often disagreements really amount to a different situation.  Things
here are obviously a lot different than there.
 
-bill
--
bill and diane killian
zen and the art of ferrets
http://www.zenferret.com/
mailto:[log in to unmask]
[Posted in FML issue 2606]