This inane argument rears its head at the same time as the controversy of
bringing Canadian "rescues" into the US.  This discussion is so ugly we
won't get into that one unless specifically invited.
 
>From:    MistyK5 <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Ugh
 
It was not said that we should neuter all of our ferrets.  But ethical
breeders alter those that they do not intend to breed.  We also do not breed
ferrets over about 4 years old.  We'd put ourselves out of breeding to stop
for two or three years.  If we did not breed than the only ferrets available
would be from pet stores.  But don't most people think pet stores are not
usually the best choice for pets?  There are exceptions as was well pointed
out in last nights FML.
 
But it was strongly implied that private breeders were somehow responsible
for the problems.  This is very insulting to those of us who work very hard
to help ferrets as a whole.  If she had not meant "all" breeeders she should
have said so.
 
>I bet they'd also say , If you'd spend that time you just spent flaming
>another ferret lover on something more worthwhile, like writiing a letter
>to the Ca Gov't or your area official, or sending a shelter or respectable
>breeder a thank you note for helping ferrets, things would get
>accomplished faster.
 
If you are still referring to our note then we hardly agree we sent a flame.
But are you implying that we do not do our part?  If so than there is no
point in further discussion.  We do believe we do our part.
 
>From:    Deborah & Manfred Fischer <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: "Please stop" harrassing your allies....
>I read the Killians post in todays list with some interest, but was left
>wondering how you could justify breeding ferrets while running a
>so-called rescue/shelter.
 
We are sorry but we really do not see this as a conflict.  In Virginia
almost all of the real shelters and referal services are also breeders.  We
do think "so-called" is a rather trite saying that is becoming much too used
in the on-line ferret world to belittle anyone you do not agree with.  We
are a so called shelter because that is what we say we are.  We are listed
by the AFA as a shelter.  You are welcome to your opinions about whether
breeders should rescue ferrets but in Virginia if we did not there would not
be enough shelters to take care of the ferrets.
 
This is the AFA list of shelters in Virginia:
        Guardian Angel Rescue & Adoption
        Just A Business of Ferrets Shelter
        Misty Run Ferrets
        Ferret Rescue of Tidewater
        The Ferrets of Pet Pals - Referral Service
        Halfway House For Woebegone Weasels
        Ferret Haven By-the-Sea
 
        Dragon Run is not advertiseing but still does rescue work.
 
Of these 8 we think 5 are breeders as well.  We aren't sure whether Misty
Run breeds or not.  There are several breeders in Virginia that are not
really involved in rescue, we won't list names as it would appear
"political".  There are new shelters popping up that have not yet been
listed.  If we breeders on the whole did NOT do our part things would be far
worse than they are.
 
We do not like being a target for misplaced blame.  On the whole breeders do
far more for ferrets than any other group.  Non-breeding shelters are close
up behind.  Though it can also be said on the whole shelter operators do far
more with non-shelter operating breeders close behind.  We are basically the
same folks.  In fact despite the rhetoric often pushed here, non-shelter
ferret breeders and non-breeder shelter operators tend to be friends and
work together.
 
There are a lot of nasty politics between rival groups but the FML is
actually now the worst breeding ground for nastiness.  We were told ferret
breeders are causing the ferrets problems.  We politely - yes politely -
disagree and we get accused of flaming.  This nastiness on the FML is a
discussion point among many of us.  If it wasn't here then perhaps more
folks that legitimately have decades of experience with ferrets would be
more willing to post here.
 
Debate is not flaming.  Disagreement is not flaming.  Check alt.flame if
you want to see what flaming is.
 
But if they get accused of causing the problems they spend much of their
time fighting they won't ever subscribe.
 
bill and diane killian
zen and the art of ferrets
http://www.zenferret.com/
mailto:[log in to unmask]
 
[Moderator's note: It's pretty hard to reach a consensus about what
constitutes a flame, but as you say, alt.flame is a good place to start.
The FML is not a good place to see flames since flames are kept off the
list.  (Admitedly, infrequently I might be too permissive and let through
something questionable.)  Sometimes people equate debate with flaming, but
that is not my defintion.  BIG]
[Posted in FML issue 2177]