(Bill Killian said:)
>You still seem hesitant to believe us though its been pretty much agreed on
>for years - even check the book mentioned above though you have to realize
>Fara's cinnamon is everyone else's Red Sable and the commonly called
>cinnamon is AFA's champagne and Fara's dilute.
 
>Di Bachman are you listening in?  You breed a lot of cinnamons, do you get
>both chocolates and albinoes mixed in with your cinnamons?
 
I'm sorry if I've given the impression I dis-believe you.  Perhaps I didn't
follow your explaination before?  You sound as if I have questioned your
credibility.  Hopefully there is a language problem here, as I have yet to
read 2 people who seemed to be in agreement, and use the same terminology.
Is the 'us' about your SO, or another list member?
 
>Based on what you've described as the litter makeup: the mother is
>"sable/chocolate" heterozygous color gened.  She is also a heterozygous
>"full color/albino".
>
>We don't agree with your your light/dark demarcation.  As far back as
>breeding ferrets was discussed by colors it was known the English (albino)
>color was recessive to Fitch (sable).  So your "sables, blazes and silvers"
>could have been heterozygous "full color/albino".  You can't tell too
>easily.
 
My intention was to avoid talking about other traits- my 'light/dark' is
your 'full color/albino', but I consider what I am calling cinnamon an
albino variation.  Looking at your next paragraph, I must assume the above
refers to the Panda that has 2 young and carries albino?  It is possible she
carries chocolate- she had a choc.  brother- but her line never thru a
'cinnamon' until I brought it in from another line.
 
>The other mother is a Sable out of a Cinnamon and a Sable.
 
So mom is heterozygous on the color gene by the common assumptions.  You
didn't mention any of the white "modifiers" so we'll assume none.  She could
be either heterozygous or homozygous full color - would suspect homozygous
based on ten with no red eyes.
 
>Anyway, the father (BigFoot) carries albino.
 
Didn't cleary see anything else you said about his coloration.  Makes it
hard to tell on color.  Any albinoes could be blazes underneath (or pandas).
You with this litter actually have the potential for anything from what I
can tell.  Even a DEW is potential but probably not.  The blaze father can
bring about mitts, blazes, pandas, dew patterns or dew.  Colors can be
champagne (cinnamon), black (silver), chocolate or sable.
 
>I was fairly sure from last year's litter that Nosey carried Cinnamon
>rather than albino (6 young- 4 darks, 2 Cinnamons), and I think this litter
>confirms that.  At any rate, all 10 young have dark eyes.
 
>Well we disagree believing these are the same thing.  If the father was
>chocolate or heterozygous sable carrying chocolate this is about the
>expected.  Close enough to half full color and half dilute.
 
This is becoming a disjointed conversation- too many 'you said, he said'
quotes.  To make it worse, it seems my original letter caused some confusion
among the critters involved.  My apologise for sloppy communication!
 
Bill, if I am understanding you all of my 'cinnamons' are 'dilute
chocolates'.  I don't deny the possiblility, but if it is true I have had
some extremely long odds against the make up of litters over the last 5
years.  For instance, I had several crosses where chocolate and albino could
have combined, but I never got a 'cinnamon/dilute' before deliberately
adding 'cinnamon'.
 
If I am understanding your model, I should have as many chocolates in a
litter that carries albino as I would have 'cinnamon/dilutes'?  I've had
only 2 chocolates in 5 years, and never in a litter that produced a
'cinnamon/dilute'.
 
My first 3 'cinnamon/dilutes' were from a cross between an albino and a
'cinnamon/dilute'.  All young were 8^)... lights ('cin/dilute' or albino).
Am I mis- understanding still, or getting very low probability litters?
 
If I understand you, your position is that the 10 dark eyed kits from my
sable (Nosey) and Cinnamon Blaze (Bigfoot) should include 'cin/dilutes',
Chocolates, and Sables, w/ probable silver/blaze/panda/DEW affects?  In that
case, the Chocolates should be visible in about a month.
 
By the way, do 'we' agree on albino vs.  REW?  I've seen no evidence here
for separate traits.  Explainations, but no experiences.
 
A suddenly appearing diamond on the head?  My CinBlaze girls had almost lost
the blaze, but it came back- as a white diamond- when they lost their winter
coats.  Is your fert going thru a coat change?
 
     Later,
     Paul
[Posted in FML issue 1926]