>From:    Alicia K Drakiotes / Ferret Wise Shelter <[log in to unmask]>
>The issue needs to be addressed to Mr. Killian
 
I would respond and explain why the LIFE Shelter Co-Ordinater has chosen to
specifically seperate me from "the competent and caring owners" but BIG has
stated to me that that is not ferret related.  Its politics.  Since I have
been singled out from my wife (No you can't get a wedge in there no matter
how hard your group tries) I'll respond personally without Diane's input to
some of the specific points made.
 
>While I am NOT pointing fingers AT any one source these ferrets
 
But you are, otherwise you wouldn't mention the Marshall name through code.
 
>I believe that there is an answer out there-- I also believe that those who
>have vested interests in MF, whether it be for political or monetary gain,
>will try to stifle any issues at the onset of questioning.
 
LIFE has long accused the AFA and hence me as having a vested interest in
MF.  They don't and I don't.  I've had some ferrets from MF.  The AFA had
one single ring at one single ferret show sponsored by MF.  We've sponsored
more rings than MF has.  Performance Foods (Totally Ferret) has sponsored
more rings.  8in1 has as well.  Several of the local breeders and several of
the shelters have as well.  Get past that lie.  I have not tried to stifle
any issues except attacks on me.  I know of the loosely co-ordinated efforts
taken against me but that is in BIG's opinion again leaving the ferret
topic.  Since we "lose" over twelve thousand dollars a year in our "ferret
business" which includes our shelter I think the monetary gain comment
amusing.  The AFA single ring sponsorship which is all the AFA has ever
gotten out of MF is on the order of $50 which is not much to expect concern
about.  The AFA is a non-profit 501(c) organization by the way.  LIFE is
virtually indistinguishable from Acme Ferret Company which is not a shelter
by the standards of taking in ferrets and is according to Ann Davis set up
as a business.  The "Independant Voice" for example belongs to Acme Ferret
not to LIFE.  But again we digress from ferrets.  The groups with the most
to gain politically from Marshall Farms are the groups working toward ferret
legalization in California.  Should the CFL sever all ties to MF who is
helping them since it is in the financial interests of Marshall to have such
a large and populous state become ferret legal?  I can not speak for the AFA
since I am just a member not an officer but the President of the AFA has
spoken of her concerns about whether some of Marshall's practices lead to
the problems.  She and some of her friends that run shelters have tried to
save the retired breeders from Marshall but have gotten nowhere.  The AFA
does not as a group "like" MF and derive no benefit from them.
 
>2.  have lived in a stress free environment
 
By human or ferret standards?  Ferrets prefer temperatures below those
normally chosen by humans.  Several vets have speculated that environmental
conditions might have something to do with the US tendancy toward cancers in
ferrets.  The recent move into peoples climate controlled houses for
example.  By the time frame ferrets since have been domesticated the twenty
years indoors is very short compared to the thousands of years of living
outdoors or in non-climate controlled houses.  Other speculation centers
around photoperiods.  Do you keep your ferrets in rooms with a lot of
artificial illumination especially keeping the lights on past the normal
daylight hours?  We keep ours in their own rooms to reduce the stress from
overly long days.  They do not have the electric lights on long past sundown
on a regular basis.  The ranches that use artificial manipulation of
photoperiod to produce more litters do that by shortening the "year" which
might have some effect.  People that keep their ferrets in their livingrooms
or other locations where they get light from sun up until their chosen
bedtimes at 10, 11 at night or even into the morning are putting extra
stress on their ferrets without knowing it.
 
>3- have not been fed sugar or other substances that would affect their
>health;
 
The diet fed in the US differs drastically from that outside the US.  Vets
also speculate that this diet consisting of kibbled food might have
something to do with the problems.  Perhaps despite the frantic panicking
about ethoxyquin, since more ferrets eat food without ethoxyquin and use
other preservatives, these other preservatives have may something to do with
it.  That is every bit as scientific (or rather as non-scientific) as the
anecdotal speculation about your personal ferrets.  This includes
speculation about the very foods you cite as "great nutritional support".
We will continue to recommend Totally Ferret as it is only part of
speculation not a confirmed cause of adrenal cancers.  At this point no
better food is known.  There is speculation that extremely early spay and
castration surgeries are part the reason for these tumors.  That is one of
the things I dislike the most about Marshall Farms.  The other is the
treatment of retired breeders.  Now in fairness there is some speculation
that the relatively tight breeding genetics at some ranches might have
something to do with the adrenal tumors.  But they happen in non-early alter
ferrets as well.
 
>I believe that IT IS NOT what side of the fence you are sitting on, NOT WHAT
>AFFILIATION YOU BELONG TO, but rather THE CONCERN FOR THESE LIVING CREATURES
>THAT SHOULD be the paramount issue.
 
Then please stop following the lead of only the small organization called
LIFE.  Read more carefully this very list for example.  All of the
scientific and medically trained posters on this list have come down on the
side of "we don't know" when searching for the cause of adrenal tumors.
Listen to them.  Listen to the other ferret groups.  None of us like what
Marshall Farms does.  But most do not leap to possibly false conclusions
without enough information.
 
>The issue needs to be addressed to Mr. Killian and others out there that
>feel it is insignificant.
 
I have never stated that the adrenal tumor situation is insignificant.
Please show any writing where I have.  When you've been involved with
ferrets a few more years you'll learn even more and if you are like most
people after only three years of owning ferrets you will look back in
amazement at all you didn't know.  I passed the three year mark several
years ago and know far more now than I did then.  I'm still learning.  I
learn from folks who have been breeding ferrets and caring for homeless
ferrets for well over a decade.  Some are ready to start their third decade.
They are still learning as well.  Please do not attack me as uncaring or
state that I think the adrenal situation is insignificant.  Your friends
that don't like me and attack me for things that really boil down to our
being a competitor for kit sales, and as being associated with groups such
as LAFF, the AFA and NAFA that they see as competitors to LIFE.  But again
I digress.
 
Best advice I can offer is to carefully read your own subject line.
bill killian
 
[Moderator's note: This debate comes up now and then.  For the most part I
think it's ridiculous.  Please look past the near-attacks and glean any
available substance.  I will allow FerretWise and/or LIFE one chance to
respond (nicely, please!) and then will close the topic again.  It's been my
experience that after a couple of rounds this debate disintegrates into
bickering with no useful or new information being exchanged.  BIG]
[Posted in FML issue 1759]