Hello,

I'm sorry to say this, but your vet is mistaken. Raw is not dangerous
to a ferret (cat/dog/carnivore). Do you know who sponsors vet nutrition
courses? Kibble companies - so I honestly couldn't care less about
what your vet thinks about raw. If she's been a vet for 15 years, her
education may be severely outdated (not saying it is, but a lot has
changed in the ferret-health world in that amount of time). A ferret
is no less a carnivore than a lion/tiger/wolf/shark/raptor/etc.
Domestication does not change an animals digestive tract.

I've had extensive education and training in microbiology, immunology,
virology, biochemistry, anatomy and physiology (humans and mammals),
genetic analysis, chemistry (organic and inorganic). My post to the FML
was not based on opinion - it is based on legitimate facts. Do you even
know what salmonella is? I do. What about E. coli? Do you know how it
works, infects, replicates? Does your vet?Maybe you can give me your
vets number and her and I can have a heart to heart on the basics and
intricacies of carnivore dietary needs.

Let me ask you a simple question - what do zoos feed their resident
lions? What about snakes? P.S. It's not kibble. It's raw meat. Flesh.
The form of protein they are designed to eat. I wonder why this is ....
Oh right, it's because they're carnivores. The lions don't get cooked
meat.

Do you really believe that humans and ferrets have the same/similar
digestive tract? Here's one HUGE difference - ferrets lack a cecum -
the equipment that digests plant matter (luckily we humans have one of
those). That wasn't an accident. Want to know another difference? Food
passes through a ferret after as little as 3-4 hours. Human digestion
can take form 24-72 hours. That's up to 3 days. So if and when ferrets
consume contaminated meat (which is quite possible to do in the wild),
it doesn't have time to "take advantage" of the host - it's just
passed. The stomach acidity also deters any colonization, further
preventing infection. If a human ate contaminated food, that's 3 days
for the bacteria to infect. This is why symptoms of salmonellosis in
humans (infection of salmonella) typically appear in about 48 to 72
hours. The shortest time is about 12 hours, which is about 3 times
longer than the ferret digestive tract (and pretty much any other
carnivores).

Just curious, how does your vet test for salmonella in ferrets? Stool
samples? If so, no wonder she's getting so many cases of "food borne
illnesses," because ferrets on kibble regularly shed salmonella in
their stools.

The chances of a ferret getting salmonella from raw meat/eggs/prey
are likely less (though I'm no statistician) than getting it from
contaminated kibble. Feeding HUMAN grade meat vs feeding some "meat"
from who-knows-where. When my ferrets eat, I know exactly where it
came from. It's organic, it's QUALITY meat.

Like I sad, give me your vet's info (email, number, whatever) so her
and I can chat. What does she advice her snake owners feed? Snake
kibble? Roasted mice? What about the big cats - do they get kibble too?

Level with me for a moment. Can we all agree that ferrets are obligate
carnivores? Yes. Okay good, we're off to a start. Can we agree that
polecats are also obligate carnivores? Yes! Okay! So we've made a
connection. What do polecats eat in the wild? Meat? Yes! What's the
different between the two? Ferrets are domesticated.

The domestication of ferrets has not, cannot, and will not, change
their digestive system. That would be evolution. Obviously polecats
are doing pretty good on the raw meat (or they'd all be dead from
salmonella).

So here is the logic.

1) Ferrets are obligate carnivores.
2) Polecats are obligate carnivores
3) Domestication does not change the digestive system of an animal
4) Polecats eat raw meat and don't die
7) SO IT CAN BE ASSUMED THAT --> Ferrets can eat raw meat and will not
die from it.

Chances - if we're going to look at chances, how about this one. What
are the chances that insulinoma is caused by grains, sugars, fruit, etc
in ferret food? 100%. Do people still l;take the chance" by feeding
cheap garbage foods? Yes. They do. Here's the difference between the
chance of a ferret getting sick from salmonella and getting insulinoma
- salmonella is 100% treatable (it's just a bacteria infection) and is
not a life long disease. Insulinoma will kill your ferret eventually.
That, in my opinion, is not a chance I would ever take. That is worse
than standing in an open field during a lightening storm - that is the
equivalent of standing in a lightening storm will a metal rod attached
to your head. Inevitably, you will get struck by lightening. It might
not happen today, tomorrow, even in a few years. But one day, it will,
if you do it enough.

If someone with a similar background to me (or maybe an actual vet!)
has some solid, real evidence of the dangers of raw (not just
regurgitated web jumble) let them step forward.

Oh, and I'm more than happy to get into a debate about the *safety* of
raw, because there are only facts to back it up. I'm not saying you
should feed it, but that doing so will not harm you pet (when feeding
a properly balanced diet).

P.S. Suki "not a vet" - That book was last updated in 1998. That is so
last century. Maybe some up-to-date material would help your argument.

Nevertheless, that was a great way to misrepresent the text in the book
(since most people don't have access to it, I guess they should just
take your word?) The "official" text says "Feeding of raw eggs MAY ALSO
PREDISPOSE ferrets to the disease." Do you know what that sounds like
to me? It sounds like "we have no idea if eggs are related to thiamine
deficiency, but JUST in case it is, let's add that caveat." No where
does it say that it definitively does. By what mechanism? Where are the
citations? What references?

Thiamine deficiency is not a lack of thiamine, but a diet rich in the
enzyme that breaks thiamine down (thiaminase). Find me something (it
doesn't even need to be peer reviewed) that shows that raw eggs (whites
or yolks) contain high levels of thiaminase.

Oh, but look here! Good sources of thiamine! Listed is *Whole egg*.
Raw eggs contain about 0.2 mg of thiamine

So contrary to your statement - whole eggs are a good source of
thiamine. Thiamine deficiency would not occur with a couple raw eggs
in the diet.

Use this site to see other thiamine rich foods. Almonds contain 0.3mg.
Whole wheat contains 0.1mg. Corn has 0.4mg.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/111/2
http://www.thirdplanetfood.com/vitamins2.htm#thiamin

[Moderator's note: A general note to readers of the FML: Please tread
lightly here. Our regular destructive raw vs kibble debate needs to
be averted. You CAN point out studies showing the pros and cons, but
please don't preach about which feeding style is best and berate each
other for not agreeing. Please present facts or opinions but let the
readers make decisions for themselves. Posts which don't play nicely
will be rejected. BIG]

[Posted in FML 7193]