>From:    [log in to unmask]
>Subject: "The Topic"?....
>That is not exactly the correct topic. The "FML" is 'discussing' what
>the best diet "may" be for a "Specific" Carnivore, the FERRET!

The best diet for a carnivore, is a diet for a carnivore. Not one for
an omnivore. Since no one is saying ferrets are omnivores, I would
think we could agree on that.

>And if the answer to the question, "What is the best diet for
>'a'carnivore" is needed , the obvious answer is one word.."meat."...

No, it would not be meat. It would be a species appropriate diet of 
meat/bones/offals.  A "prey model diet".

>From:    Sukie Crandall <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: aging and changing needs
>
>So, assumptions can't be made about what is best for longevity, not
>even in diet. Older ferrets might turn out to need less protein, or
>lowered sources of phosphorous, or more omega 3 fatty acids, for
>instance, to keep aging kidneys in their best shape. Other organs
>have their own needs as time goes on, too.

True, but they do not become omnivores as they age. They still need a
carnivore's diet, with changed ratios, calorie deficit, etc.

>From:    Sukie Crandall <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: double standards
>
>1. For some people it is considered fine to put in statements about
>raw feeding of other species in zoos BUT from SOME of those same
>people all heck breaks loose when articles appear showing that in that
>same setting raw feeding has at times -- even with experts controlling
>it -- resulted in disease AND that because of the level of disease
>some zoos have abandoned raw feeding for portions of the animal
>population to learn if going back to a prepared food helped those
>species and might help others.

Besides the BFF reference those other studies showed salmonella in the
feces of the animals, not that the animals were becoming ill from
salmonella. In fact at least one mentioned at the end that good safety
handling procedures should be followed. That is why I personally find
those studies irrelevant. I would of conceded to that being a fact
without references. That is fear mongering.

>2. A certain few raw feeding people have been repeatedly demanding
>more and more references and vet statements and these have been
>supplied. Those same people have not themselves supplied any expert
>references recently if memory serves correctly.

Carnivores themselves are their own references. Like I have said, this
is all backwards, kibble is a hypothesis, not a carnivore diet for a
carnivore.

>3. Some of the raw people are very happy to mention that dog and cat
>work exists with raw feeding, BUT some of those same people freak if a
>few of the existing infection references in relation to dogs and cats
>and raw feeding are given.

Again, I may have skipped over a link after they all seemed to say the
same thing, but finding salmonella in feces is not the same as saying
the animals are sick from it. There bodies did it's job and dealt with
the salmonella. In fact those studies prove that carnivores can handle
salmonella. Those links seem to be provided as a sneaky way to skew
facts.

>5. Some people are happy to bring Natural Selection (species history)
>into the discussion but NOT to learn basics about Natural Selection
>itself to learn when it does not apply (as in longevity for ferret) as
>an argument.

I may be confused on what you are saying, but again I will reply, a
carnivore is a carnivore til the day it dies.

> NO ONE HAS A PERFECT ANSWER AND THIS ISN'T A JIHAD FOR ANY SIDE!

Yes, there is a perfect answer. The best diet for a carnivore is a
carnivores diet. Now, is that going to be the easiest or most practical
way for some people to feed, no. But since everyone here knows that a
ferret is an obligate carnivore, it isn't rocket science to agree on
what the best diet is for them. And to quote you again, it "almost"
seems like you are saying it here, since you do not make any mention
of changing grain needs:

>So, assumptions can't be made about what is best for longevity, not
>even in diet. Older ferrets might turn out to need less protein, or
>lowered sources of phosphorous, or more omega 3 fatty acids, for
>instance, to keep aging kidneys in their best shape. Other organs
>have their own needs as time goes on, too.

  :)

  ~Amy~

[Posted in FML 5429]