I worded this badly:
> I do not know how many ferrets panic -- though I know that some do
> -- because most seem to pass out.
 
See it this way:
I do not know how many ferrets panic -- though I know that some do and
I do not know how many ferrets panic because most seem to pass out.
 
The passing out has nothing to do with panic.  It is because of blood
pressure drop.  Ferrets seem to pretty consistently have a large enough
pressure drop that they pass out (but a few panic beforehand).  In humans
some pass out, but others stay awake but with the airway progressively
lost but staying awake is lucky because although uncomfortable it allows
a person to self-medicate and seek help.
 
Also, notice that the links in that post yesterday were in relation to
Inga's question.  I have been very busy and rather rushed recently.
Sorry.  Just life...
 
Well, people don't have to defend their choice to feed raw if they so
choose, any more than people who choose to not feed raw have to.  If you
will RE-READ you will note that I pointed out my own choice but I also
pointed out that there are people -- including very well informed vets --
who feed raw as well as other who are just as qualified who won't.  The
reason is that what is known is simply not sufficient to make a clear
choice in either direction.
 
Nor do I think that it is scare tactics for me to put up info from an
informed and excellent expert site when I not only include the URL
http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/bacteria/
and the experts' own qualifier pointing out that more research is needed,
but I ALSO emphasize that point of them being hypothetical in my own
words, too, to be clear.
 
I'm sorry, but your choice is no more perfect than mine.  Neither of us
has the ultimate answer; no one does.  Easy "answers" tend to be wrong
all too often.  Others discussed the raw side, and I presented info for
the other side.  Ironically, I think that I was the only one who pointed
out that both choices are valid ones, and both choices have both up sides
and down sides.  I also think that I was the only one to point out which
things are hypothetical.  For some diet seems to be treated like a
religious decision, and that's just their way of looking at it, I guess.
My own choice is to decide based on the current level of information
while keeping an open enough mind to then to respond to reputable future
information such as from careful, peer reviewed, controlled studies when
it becomes available.
 
As far as cystine stones are concerned, the vet experts (The names can
be found in past posts of mine.) on such stones are the people I quoted
and there are at least known 4 known genetic conditions in mammals that
can contribute to or cause cystine stones, not one.  In fact, the one
mentioned in that post URL given has two variants.  The NIH in 2004
announced that it would like to have this and some other kidney
conditions also looked at in relation to several Neural Crest Genetic
Variants.  At least one genetic component is very likely, but it may not
be the most common condition found in humans, some types of dogs, and
some types of wolves, and if it is that one then which of the variants of
that is important.  It is also important to know if it is merely the
cystine levels which are a concern in ferrets, or if the C.O.L.A.  group
of amino acids may be involved.  This is an area where knowledge has
improved a lot in recent years and I was talking with the best veterinary
experts in the field at the time and getting the very latest information
because we came so close to losing Hilbert, but there is so very much
more to learn because way too little is known still, esp.  for ferrets.
 
The on-going study into cystine stones in ferrets is being headed by
Dr. Michelle Hawkins of UC Davis and will include genetic work,
dietary study, etc.  It is good for vets to have her contact info:
Companion Avian and Exotic Pet Service
VM: Medicine and Epidemiology, 2108 Tupper Hall, University of CA, Davis,
Davis, CA 95616, 530.752.1363 (ph), [log in to unmask]
 
You will be glad to know that by keeping the protein level down to below
35% in our two ferrets (Mornie and Hilbert) who are prone to such stones
(one of whom almost died: Hilbert) we have managed to avoid a recurrence
for over a year and a half.  Luckily, this is usually the case; the trick
is getting the ferrets through the initial bout, especially male ferrets
who too often don't make it.  In case anyone here needs this info or has
a vet who does: both Dr. Mike Dutton (paper 1996) and Dr. Tom Kawasaki
have successfully used meds for two others for whom dietary adjustment
was not enough, so both can help consult in that situation.
 
Cystine stones vary from struvite stones.  Struvite stones are caused by
a diet too high in plant matter and the urine is alkaline.  With cystine
stones the individual is not able to handle high levels of certain amino
acid(s), and the urine becomes acidic.  (There are also a few other types
of stones found in ferrets but those are really rare.) Struvite by a wide
margin are the most commonly encountered ones in ferrets.
[Posted in FML issue 5160]