>From: Sukie Crandall <[log in to unmask]>
>I thought that this may interest some folks who read one of the things
>Amy sent and perhaps worried. "Mad Cow" and similar prion diseases are
>RARE -- far, far more so than other illnesses which have come up in
>the food discussion -- and mostly transmitted from neural tissue but
>some recent studies in some animals have found it in some types of
>muscle (meat) as well.
What should be of concern to people is the meat sources used in kibble.
They may not be "human grade" sources or have the quality measures in
place as to what you would buy for your family. When I first heard
about mad cow being found it kibble I wondered about the human danger
from that. How many people have or know someone (or some child) who
has sampled kibble or a dog biscuit? How'd you like to get
Creutzfeldt-Jacob from kibble? Kibble manufacturers are not known for
putting top quality animal sources in there products. Dead, diseased
and dying are all considered fine for pet foods.
>Raw diets can cause infection. Yes, ferrets do tend to be resistant to
>such infections BUT when they occur they can be extreme and it is not
>terribly unusual for them to be fatal.
I would put those odds about equal to pets getting sick/dying from
contaminated kibble. Same odds are probably about equal for choking
on kibble or choking on a bone. And finding salmonella in the stool is
not the same as the animal being sick from it. The links you posted
confirmed that. I do not want people to be worried either.
>The frustrating part is when people who feed raw refuse to accept that
>side of heir choice even when past vet posts are provided illustrating
>how hard the diseases can be to treat and that the vets who wrote
>those posts do have experience with such infections.
I personally know many raw feeders and none of them aren't aware of
those RARE possibilities. They have chosen to accept that risk rather
than the much higher health risks of feeding species inappropriate
diets.
>I know what that too often leads to. Way too many times when a ferret
>does become infected instead of being frank with the treating vet --
>the approach which has the best chance of helping the ferret a person
>approaches me asking what medications to suggest to the vet. Again:
>I am not a vet. Do you have any idea how it feels to have people who
>won't be honest with their vets after not being honest with themselves
>talking to me off-list trying to find medical help, and at the same
>time have others on a list repeatedly demanding to see proof of such
>infections and then ignoring the proof when given? Is it any surprise
>that i become frustrated? A few people here already know that I face
>this frustration; a few other people here have put me in that spot,
>actually, so they know, too.
There is no reason for someone to not be honest with their vet. As
proven by your links testing positive for salmonella does not mean that
is the cause of the animals problem. There have been many cases where
a raw diet was blamed and a necropsy ruled it out. Most vets are very
quick to blame the diet on anything, yet not give it any credit when an
animal improves when put on that diet. I am not saying an animal could
not have problems with salmonella, I just know there have been some
false reports.
You yourself ignore proof. You pick and choose what "hypothesis" you
wish to push. Do you get frustrated when someone comes to you when
their ferret now has insulnomia or diabetes? Does it frustrate you
that people know ferrets are carnivores yet a diet that can bring on or
acerbate these diseases is the norm? You instill fear in people by the
hypothesis of yearly vaccinations standing behind the front of there is
no evidence to show longer immunity, yet there is no evidence to show
they are necessary? You have even admitted in the past that
over-vaccinating may be harmful (and tossing out dog/cat studies
PROVING duration of immunity lasts much longer than one year by saying
"those are not ferret studies), yet you will still instill fear in
people that they better do it yearly. Double standards abound.
>Why the most head-in-sand behavior seems to involve infections from
>raw food, I don't know. Are they rare? Yes. When they occur can they
>kill? Yes.
So can kibble as I have provided links proving. Head in the sand is
rampant on many different things around here.
>How does it feel to help people while begging them to be honest with
>their vets and at the same time get nastiness which acts like it is
>okay to pretend that such infections don't occur? What do you think?
Probably the same way people feel when someone comes to them with
problems that can be attributed to a kibble diet and/or vaccines, yet
they won't consider that possibility. Your above quotes are a perfect
example of the drama you use to put the fear in people. I know you
have a wealth of knowledge and help many people, but your personal
fears/issues also can be a disservice to the ferret community. Your
caveat at the end of your posts (Sukie, not a vet)implies that you are
aware that many will take your words as gospel and you know you may
influence many with your personal choices/feelings.
>Also, no discussion is going to define the perfect food for ferrets
>because that varies among individuals and perhaps across ages, and too
>many gaps still exist in the knowledge. Face it; that's where we are
>currently stuck till more careful peer reviewed research exists, and
>words won't change that. So, make your own choices and accept those of
>others -- just be honest about it.
The perfect food for ferrets is a whole prey based (species
appropriate) diet. No peer reviewed studies need to be done to know
that. There are "too many gaps" so we decide to feed them something we
know is not in there diet? Where exactly is the logic in that? Face it,
it's man that has the problem with how to feed them. We are not "stuck"
feeding kibble (an unproven hypothesis), it is a choice. Again, the
picking and choosing of what needs "scientific evidence" is all over
the place.
~Amy~
[Posted in FML 5430]
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