shron33 said;
>...though he liked Natural Gold, it gave him loose poop and the vet
>said not to give it to him.
 
Bob C: Natural Gold for Ferrets is still under formulation so the recipe
is still being tweaked a bit.  The loose poop is not actually a problem
provided Rocky has adequate fluids; his system is probably just not used
to the quantity of fat.  It gave my ferrets stools the consistency and
color of Nutrical for a few weeks, but they have recently firmed up
somewhat.  Newer production runs have been tweaked a bit, so it isn't as
much of a problem.
 
There are two things here of importance.  One comment is about your vet,
but I'll put that on the back burner for a moment.  Natural Gold is not
only a new food, it is also a radically different food.  For example, it
only has 10% carbohydrates (or less), while the best of other ferret
foods are 2 to 3 times that amount.  I have found from my own experiences
and from the reports of my friends that placing a ferret on Natural Gold
almost always causes a couple of weeks of soft, even runny stools.  Part
of this is because the food is different and it takes time for the
intestines to adjust to it.  Part is because of the high fat content.
And perhaps the greatest part is because it changes the ecology of the
gut, which impacts the bacterial flora.  The ferret will adapt to all of
these factors if given enough time; perhaps up to a month.  Bob s Chicken
Gravy will do the same thing when first given.  As I mentioned, as long
as the ferret has enough water, the loose stools are not a problem.
 
shron33 said:
>He also said ferrets don't need 50% protein; they don't get that much in
>the wild.  He said 30-35% is adequate.
 
Bob C: NOW I'll talk about the vet.  I don't know a nice way of putting
this, but I have found from my experience fewer vets than you would
imagine know much about pet nutrition, to say nothing about the needs of
ferrets.  They all say they know, and they all act as if they know, and
if you suggest otherwise some will get red-faced and scream that they
know, but the truth is the majority of them know about as much about
ferret nutrition as I know about golf, and all I really care to know
about golf is that my beloved Mr. Clemens said it was a good walk spoiled
and I believe him.  Besides, REAL athletes can tune out crowd noise;
Berry Bonds impresses me, Tiger Woods does not.
 
First, the vet is dead wrong about the protein levels from the wild.
What does the vet think prey bodies are made of- -broccoli?  Just think
about this for a second.  Even a well-fed mouse with a gut full of grain
is going to have less than 5% carbohydrate content.  So what is left?
Fats, minerals (ash), and proteins, and that's about it.  As a
zooarchaeologist, I can tell you the skeleton in animals a ferret would
eat rarely exceeds 10-15% of the body mass and the fat content of healthy
wild animals averages to between 15-25%, which means the remainder is
protein.  So, if the ferret was fed a wild animal with a body composition
of 5% carbohydrate, 15% minerals, and 25% fat (a really fat little
morsel), the remaining 55% would be- -you guessed it- -proteins!  These
numbers are not so far off of the whole body composition of a rabbit,
being < 1% carbs, 12.2% ash, 22.6% crude fat, and 61.8% crude protein on
a dry matter basis.  In other words, your vet is simply wrong; ferrets
are polecats, and polecats have evolved for millions of years consuming
animals having higher than 50% protein content.
 
Ferret nutritional standards are not well known.  Currently, the best
published information on ferret nutrition is in Fox's book, but that
study is biased.  It doesn't actually tell you what the best diet is for
ferrets, but rather describes a diet constructed by Marshall Farms that
promotes successful ferret reproduction and kit survival.  No one knows
how that compares to the needs of non-breeding pet ferrets, such as older
neutered males with little physical activity.  One way to get around
this problem without spending gobs of money on research is to make the
assumption ferrets evolved eating a specific diet, and provide a
nutritionally similar alternative.  That is what is behind Natural Gold;
I understand it is designed to be the nutritional equivalent of polecat
prey, which is why the proteins and fats are high and the carbs are low.
 
To me the deciding point on high protein is that ferrets that don't eat
carbohydrates use fats and proteins for energy.  When most mammals use
protein for energy, the waste products tend to build up and make the
blood acidic, definitely not a good thing.  However, ferrets, polecats,
mink and weasels (and cats and many other carnivores) have a special
metabolic pathway that makes glucose without the ill effects, and
therefore DO NOT HAVE A CARBOHYDRATE REQUIREMENT.  Insulinoma is almost
entirely due to a long-term diet of carbohydrate-rich kibble; there is
no other significant reason.  When you have a food like Pretty Bird's
Natural Gold where the carbohydrate content is drastically reduced, the
ratio of proteins and fats will naturally increase, which is good because
the ferret needs them to make blood sugar.  ANY vet (or any other ferret
professional) who doesn't understand the ferrets unique metabolism and
their specialized adaptations to a high protein, high fat diet, is not
qualified to pontificate on ferret nutritional requirements.
 
shron33 said:
>He seems to want to subsist on my chicken gravy (and treats, including
>cat and kitten food), but I don't trust its nutritional content.  Why
>does he like cat food better than ferret food?
 
Bob C: If you make Bob s Chicken Gravy like I have said to do it, your
ferrets are meeting their nutritional requirements, especially if eating
other foods.  If you have changed my gravy formulation, then you could be
changing the Ca:P ratios, the balance of essential fatty and amino acids,
and even the fat to protein ratios.  In that case, it is NOT my chicken
gravy and I don't even want to be associated with it.
 
Ferrets like crappy foods for two basic reasons: olfactory imprinting and
because of the sugar and content.  Ferrets olfactory imprint on foods
when very young, and they carry those dietary preferences for the rest
of their lives.  They will always prefer those foods.  Kibbles, even
good ones, have a large amount of carbohydrate added (Natural Gold is an
exception).  Because of the finely ground nature of the ingredients, as
well as the high temperatures and pressures of extrusion processing, the
carbs have an unusually high degree of digestibility.  If digested, these
carbs are processed down to sugar.  Humans and ferrets become addicted to
sugar, partially because of blood sugar fluctuations on such a diet.
 
I really LOVE beans.  I can t get enough of them, honest.  A bowl of
hot navy beans is like heaven to me.  But just because I like them, it
doesn't mean they are good for me.  I've lost the terminal part of my
small bowel, my caecum and appendix, my ascending colon, and about half
of my transverse colon.  When I eat beans, it is not only painful to
others, but also extremely painful to me.  Just because a ferret likes a
food and wants a food, it doesn't mean an owner has to give it to them.
You can make the decision to give them a healthier diet.  Strong words
from a guy that refuses to stop eating beans.
 
Bob C
Communication?  [log in to unmask]
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[Posted in FML issue 4567]