>From:    Sukie Crandall <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: disagree with Zen on WS and markings, heart and vaccine reactions
>Bill and Diane wrote:
>
>>A sable with mitts and a bib is most probably one that has
>>Waardenburg syndrome.
 
>Not necessarily.  From readings so far of actual research, the fur
>markings which are definitive for Waardensburg are life-long panda heads
>or life-long blaze heads ONLY so far (firm and well documented history
>in multiple mammals of this neural crest disorder).
 
Mitts (perhaps more properly socks) on ferrets that are not black (or
silver) are indeed associated with the exactly same gene that causes that
patterns called panda and blaze.  Those of us who breed ferrets know this
whether someone has ever written a paper on it or not.  Believe this goes
all the way back to Fara Shimbo's writings which may have problems but
are among the most accessible writings on ferret breeding.
 
Now if what we are calling Waardenburg syndrome in ferrets is not really
the same Waardenburg genes is more likely to be in doubt.
 
Not all bibs are from what we are calling Waardenburg.  And mitts are
indeed on black/silver ferrets and are not always Waardenburg.  That is
why we did not state that this particular ferrets *was* a Waardenburg
afflicted ferret but was only "most probably" so.
 
Remember black is not sable.  *If* the ferret in question is not a sable
but really black then our statement is not applicable.
 
The Waardenburg patterns such as panda and blaze do not breed true.  In a
litter you will usually have a mix of non patterned ferrets, mitts, blazes
and pandas.  If other factors are there a dark eyed white or two as well.
 
>Am seeing mitts and bibs which are not as cleanly deliniated
 
That would often be a sign (but not definitive) of WS caused mitts.
 
>I suspect possible multiple causes, but the numbers have NOT been done,
>and until there is firm data
 
The "numbers" have been done; just not published formally.  Lots and lots
of litters including our own personal experiences.  Bill is an engineer by
trade is is quite used to working with known data that has not ever been
published academically.  This is similar.  Very few that breed ferrets
are at all scientific, it is not surprising that none of the have ever
published.
 
You also might consider that blaze and panda are considered two different
patterns by show standards but the same ferret can often be a blaze part
of the year and a panda the remainder.  Our Bottespotva was one of these.
He was called that because he had a dark spot in the middle of his blaze
during the summer.
 
>That causes unwarranted panic and it tends to interrupt or prevent solid
>research.
 
No, it doesn't.  If someone was genuinely interested in academic research
then they could perform such whether or not those who are not academically
inclined already understand certain things.  If such research is performed
and proves "common knowledge" incorrect it would not be the first time
"common knowledge" was wrong; but there is enough evidence of this for us
to be reasonably sure.  Science is by nature self correcting.  Another
marking that is associated with these genetics is white kneecaps.  Quite
sure that is not mentioned in academic articles either.
 
>Remember, you yourselves have pointed out that small samples can easily
>mislead, and do not let yourselves fall into the same fallacy.
 
Indeed we have.  We are not referring to overly small samples.
 
We do concede that someone might have a sable with mitts that are not
Waardenburg.  We may well actually have seen one that came from England.
But at this point we are very confident in our assertion about sable mitts
being most probably a Waardenburg caused pattern.
 
One problem with this whole issue is the lack of understanding of ferret
color genetics versus the naming of those colors and patterns.
 
>From:    "Bruce Williams, DVM" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Toxoplasmosis
>For a person to contract Toxo, they would likely have to eat poorly
>cooked ferret meat, because ferrets cannot pass infective Toxo oocytes
>in their feces.
 
Thank you.  We admit our error and apologize for our mistake.
 
bill and diane killian
zen and the art of ferrets
[Posted in FML issue 3247]