[Moderator's note: Posted in multiple parts which have been combined. BIG]
>From: Sue Selby <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: ADV/AFA
>I agree with the AFA's stance on proof of negative tests in known ADV
>households. I do not believe the Hertzogs are being singled out.
Hi Sue!
Got a problem with this. The Hertzogs are not a known ADV household
anymore than other folks who have had ferrets in their temporary custody
who had ADV. The only truly known ADV households would be those people
who have turned their homes and shelters into permanent residences for ADV
positive ferrets, such as Yvonne DeCarlo, Rick and Candy White, and Danee
DeVore. If you are to consider the Hertzogs at risk for ADV, then you also
have to consider those people who transported those same ferrets to their
eventual permanent homes and those breeders who have had ADV positive
ferrets in their homes during breeding season, albeit it before they knew
the ferrets were positive, but later were informed of this fact.
So, shouldn't these people have to provide this same proof of negative
testing when they bring their ferrets to a show? And what about those
folks who confide in secret with their friends, that just maybe some of
their ferrets that have died, could have died from Aleutians? Shouldn't
they have to also provide proof their show ferrets are ADV negative?
This list is seemingly endless with possibilities of who may or may not
have an ADV positive ferret Why not just have every ferret that is to be
entered in a show tested -- or none at all?
Shirley has not changed her story. The only variations we've heard about
what Shirley is saying come from Vickie. Given all the versions of stories
about us that Vickie's told people, this is not surprising.
>From: Vickie McKimmey <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: adv policy - part 1A - long
>This issue has been blown out of proportions again - as usual. This is
>not from one individual, it has support from the board.
Some people see favoritism and discrimination as wrong no matter how many
members of the AFA board agree with the practices.
>The only requirements for AFA sanctioned shows is rabies and distemper
>vaccinations with vaccines USDA approved for use in ferrets.
Then why did the email demanding proof of negative ADV testing get sent?
>It is not feasible for everyone to be testing their ferrets for ADV
>before shows.
Why not? Those that only show a couple ferrets a couple times a year would
have no problem complying with a reasonable rule, requiring that ferrets be
tested prior to the shows. If someone is going to show a large number of
ferrets we can see how this would present an economic problem. However,
that is a choice that would need to be made by the exhibitor. At other
animals shows, there is a list of testing requirements that have to be
fulfilled in order to show those animals prior to each show. With some
animals, a new, complete physical and health certificate is required for
each show. It goes with the territory of showing your animals.
Even if at this point the two veterinarians that seem to have the most
knowledge of Aleutians and ADV have recommended not requiring testing of
anybody.
>Right now, this policy is for AFA hosted and sanctioned shows.
By this do you mean any show that is either hosted by the AFA or has AFA
sanctioning, or only those shows that the AFA actually hosts?
IF the AFA is going to require hosting organizations follow AFA policies on
Fervac-D as a part of sanctioning, will the AFA also expect this new ADV
policy to be a part of the requirements before the AFA will sanction a
show?
But then if the AFA is to force policing to prevent the low risk of ADV
transmission why will the AFA not force policing of the higher risk of
abuse of ferrets? Seems inconsistent.
>We still believe there is a very low risk of spreading ADV at shows,
>as long as information is provided to everyone on precautions that
>should be taken.
Perhaps those in the AFA that are involved in making these policies should
become more knowledgeable about the real facts in ADV and other aspects.
The anonymous quotes you have provided only point out that the AFA board
(if that is who wrote the notes) is not up to date on the situation.
>From: Vickie McKimmey <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: adv policy - part 1A - long
>AFA shows will continue to use the judging carriers which seem to
>be one of the best way to minimize exposure to anything at shows.
With Bill having been a licensed AFA judge for several years and having
judged using the carrier method and the more usual method of the exhibitor
personally handing the ferret to the judge, and with Diane being a judge
as well, we feel safe in commenting on this.
Bill prefers the carrier method because it provides better anonymity for
the ferret. It does not, however, in anyway reduce the risk of exposure
to disease. If anything it's the opposite. The carriers are all handled
by numerous people. Only the ferrets are handled by the judges but the
carriers are not. The carriers are all stacked one on top of another
putting the ferrets mere inches apart. Additionally, the carriers provided
by some exhibitors are nothing more than the small wire travel cages.
There is no protection afforded to this ferret other than it cannot escape
the confines of the cage. The carriers rub up against each other but are
not disinfected in anyway.
With the more usual method the ferret is only in contact with the
exhibitor, the judge and the table. The judge and the table are
disinfected between ferrets. Other than when the ferret is actually be
judged, it is in the control of it's owner.
Keep the carrier method for its benefits but don't exaggerate what they
are.
>From: Vickie McKimmey <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: adv policy - part 1B - long
>This policy is for all attendees who have or have had a ferret test
>positive for ADV in their care.
[...]
>At this time, there are only two ferret households attending the
>event that have had known ADV positive ferrets, yours and Danee DeVores.
As stated previously, there were others involved with these same ferrets
that Shirley had in her care. Other breeders who have had ferrets in their
care that later tested positive were also probably in attendance at this
show. By your own admission of who this policy was to affect, these other
people should have had the ferrets they were planning to show, tested as
well and proof submitted at the show.
>The test is only as good as when the sample is drawn, and if folks
>test too early, the test is not reliable then.
This is a reason NOT to single out those people that have admitted publicly
(not only in secret confessions) that they had ferrets test positive. It
is illogical to require any testing according to the knowledgeable vets
especially if those test results are not necessarily reliable. In the case
of kits, it is recommended not to test them until they are at least 6
months old. At a show, it is permissible to show a ferret at 4 months of
age. How reliable is the test result for that kit?
>Like I said before, we are not singling you and Shirley out.
We can cite many quotes of yours from the secret adv cabal where you indeed
single out Shirley Hertzog. Your little snow dance for example on wishing
their show last February to be a failure.
>From: Vickie McKimmey <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: adv policy part 2 - long
>Here are some of the responses I received from the board.
Unattributable quotes are pointless but we'll examine them anyway.
[#1]
>I'm probably going to come across as hard lined, especially since I've
>been somewhat out of the loop on the ADV issue.
But ones like this point out that the AFA did not reach this edict of
yours by consensus of the whole board with the whole board first becoming
informed about the issue.
>it seems that ADV positive ferrets should NOT be allowed to attend shows
Since no one is asking to bring ferrets that have tested positive for the
virus that is not the issue. All anyone is asking is that the AFA
institute its policies fairly.
>My suggestion would be for those people who have ADV+ ferrets that they
>wish to adopt out to use the photo board method of display.
This also does not address the issue. The Hertzogs do NOT have ADV+
ferrets. They have tested and found this out. Theirs are not any more
likely than your Vickie, to have the virus.
>Since I don't know the vendor, or who has ADV+ ferrets and who doesn't,
>consider me, perhaps, the most unbiased voice here...
Unfortunately, she should be considered the most uninformed. Apparently
the actual issue was not explained to her. This is typical of folks
dealing with the AFA. Some members of the board are notorious for keeping
secret the actual truth from other members.
[#2]
>Unfortunately it will look as though we are being prejudiced and you
>know you will run into the questions of why others are there
If it is known that you will look prejudiced then do everything you can
to not be prejudiced. Put the exact same policy of testing in place for
everyone. Then it will neither look nor be prejudiced.
[#3]
>Many show participants have no idea that certain persons have had ADV
>positive ferrets in their households and many people have no idea what
>ADV is and what the dangers may be.
This apparently includes the AFA board in the group of people who are at
as much risk as the Hertzogs are, with not being targeted with the same
demands. If however the exact same rule is applied to all people
requiring ADV testing then it appears fair and IS fair. Win/win.
[#4]
>All responsible ferret shelters have tested and we should expect no
>less from anyone else.
Was it explained to the AFA board that this shelter DID test? And tested
clean? All anyone here has said is that the rules should apply to all not
just a select few. That has not been addressed by any officer or board
member of the AFA.
[#5 ]
>When you get right down to it, it seems like AFA gets criticized no
>matter what we do, so we should do what we think is right.
That is paranoid. The AFA gets criticized when it appears to do something
wrong. It is wrong to blame the messenger bearing news that the AFA may
have made a mistake. But that is indeed the AFA's way. When questioned
about the abuse incident at a show for example, the president of the AFA
lies on the AFA controlled AFA message board claiming that the complainant
was not who she can prove she is,though she has the credentials to prove it.
The AFA can make mistakes. Fix the mistakes and continue on.
>And, as an after thought, everyone with ferrets at the Super Pet Expo
>brought their ferrets through vet check and provided their vaccine
>documentation. Everyone, that is except Shirley and Clarence, who did
>have their ferrets at the show.
Here again you are doing what you claim you haven't -- singling out the
Hertzogs. The way you have worded this paragraph makes it appear that the
Hertzogs failed to show their vaccine documentation. This requirement is
for those people exhibiting their ferrets. The Expo was a unique situation
in that vendors who would normally be inside the show hall itself, had
their tables set up outside the perimeter of the space reserved for the AFA
and its show. The AFA did not rent the area that the vendors were in. The
Hertzogs ferrets were not in the show so they did not pass into the AFA
area, THAT is why they were not part of the AFA controlled vet check.
There was nothing nefarious about that despite the implications of the
cited author. Incidentally, the ferrets the Hertzogs had with them were
current on their vaccinations as well as having ADV negative test results.
bill and diane
--
bill and diane killian
zen and the art of ferrets
http://www.zenferret.com/
mailto:[log in to unmask]
[Posted in FML issue 3062]
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